# What, if any, science links bee colony collapse to pesticide use? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 15, 2013, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-any-science-links-bee-colony-collapse-to-pesticide-use/658412 "2013-05-15T15:56:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-any-science-links-bee-colony-collapse-to-pesticide-use/658412/1 "2013-05-15T15:56:53Z")
A facebook friend who apparently has no bullshit detector and frequently posts fringey stuff recently posted a link claiming that “neonicotinoid insecticides” are killing the bees. Considering the source, I would normally just blow this off. Yet it is something I have been following for a few years, so am interested, and blind pigs do occasionally find acorns. Googling this topic yields a very low signal to noise ratio. Any dopers have the inside scoop on what the latest is? I started [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=514226) a while back regarding some legitimate science that looked like a breakthrough, but it seems not to have panned out. ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-any-science-links-bee-colony-collapse-to-pesticide-use/658412/2 "2013-05-15T18:07:49Z")
[From a NY Times article in March](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/29/science/earth/soaring-bee-deaths-in-2012-sound-alarm-on-malady.html): > [@](#): > > …beekeepers and some researchers say there is growing evidence that a powerful new class of pesticides known as neonicotinoids, incorporated into the plants themselves, could be an important factor. [Wikipedia’s article on colony collapse disorder](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_collapse_disorder) also points to studies by the European Food Safety Authority and US Department of Agriculture which raise the same concern. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-any-science-links-bee-colony-collapse-to-pesticide-use/658412/3 "2013-05-15T18:09:31Z")
Didn’t the EU recently ban their use? ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-any-science-links-bee-colony-collapse-to-pesticide-use/658412/4 "2013-05-15T19:07:03Z")
My brother worked on these pesticides. He posts these articles. I find this rather persuasive. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-any-science-links-bee-colony-collapse-to-pesticide-use/658412/5 "2013-05-15T19:37:06Z")
_ **could be** an important factor_ _raise some concern_ _rather persuasive_ Hardly sounds like hard science. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-any-science-links-bee-colony-collapse-to-pesticide-use/658412/6 "2013-05-15T19:54:50Z")
> [@Kevbo](#): > > A facebook friend who apparently has no bullshit detector and frequently posts fringey stuff recently posted a link claiming that “neonicotinoid insecticides” are killing the bees. > > Considering the source, I would normally just blow this off. Yet it is something I have been following for a few years, so am interested, and blind pigs do occasionally find acorns. > > Googling this topic yields a very low signal to noise ratio. Any dopers have the inside scoop on what the latest is? > > I started [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=514226) a while back regarding some legitimate science that looked like a breakthrough, but it seems not to have panned out. There is plenty of evidence associating pesticides and honey bee harm. Given the ubiquity of pesticides, this is not surprising. If you mean “cause” instead of “link,” though, the evidence is weaker. Over in GD there is a similar thread; see the comments there. From [one of the articles](http://www.ars.usda.gov/News/docs.htm?docid=15572)I cited there: \*A survey of honey bee colonies revealed no consistent pattern in pesticide levels between healthy and CCD-affected colonies when pollen, bees, and beeswax were tested for the presence of 170 pesticides. The most commonly found pesticide in that study was coumaphos, which is used to treat honey bees for Varroa mites. The pesticide class neonicotinoids (clothianidin, thiamethoxam, and imidacloprid) has been accused of being the cause of CCD. The neonicotinoids were developed in the mid-1990s in large part because they showed reduced toxicity to honey bees, compared with previously used organophosphate and carbamate insecticides. In 2008, Germany revoked the registration of the neonicotinoid clothianidin for use on seed corn after an incident that resulted in the die-off of hundreds of nearby honey bees colonies. Investigation into the incident revealed that the die-off was caused by a combination of factors, including the failure to use a polymer seed coating known as a “sticker”: weather conditions that resulted in late planting of corn while nearby canola crops were in bloom, attracting honey bees; use of a particular type of air-driven equipment used to sow the seeds, which blew clothianidin-laden dust off the seeds and into the air as the seeds were ejected from the machine into the ground; dry and windy conditions at the time of planting, which blew the dust into the nearby canola fields where honey bees were foraging; and a higher application rate than had been authorized was used to treat for a severe root worm infestation. Several studies that reported a negative impact on honey bees by neonicotinoids relied on large, unrealistic doses and gave bees no other choice for pollen, and therefore did not reflect risk to honey bees under real world conditions. Nor have the studies demonstrated a direct connection or correlation to CCD. There have been scientific findings that imply that neonicotinoids have sublethal effects on honey bees at approved doses and exposures. ARS scientists and other researchers are looking into whether such sublethal effects may correlate with CCD or other bee health problems and whether they could be a contributing cause of CCD.\* Given the vigor with which many folks hope the problem is yet another case of Big Business and Vile Profits, I think it will be a while to sort it out, particularly since it’s pretty popular to get on the anti-chemicals train. And it’s not as if carelessly used chemicals don’t have a history of unintended negative consequences. Interestingly, the article I cited mentions a periodic–every 40 years or so–possible decline in honeybee populations since 1880. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-any-science-links-bee-colony-collapse-to-pesticide-use/658412/7 "2013-05-16T02:45:08Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > _ **could be** an important factor_ > > _raise some concern_ > > _rather persuasive_ > > Hardly sounds like hard science. Actually this sounds exactly like the way real scientists talk. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-any-science-links-bee-colony-collapse-to-pesticide-use/658412/8 "2013-05-16T15:40:49Z")
Thanks for the info. Even if they end up being correct, it sounds like there is some excessive hysteria over this. People never seem to learn that “knowing” what the problem is, absent evidence, is seldom a step towards fixing it.