# What \[if\] Apollo 11 failed?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-apollo-11-failed/504075
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [July 24, 2009, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-apollo-11-failed/504075 "2009-07-24T02:38:11Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@ChrisBooth12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChrisBooth12)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2009, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-apollo-11-failed/504075/1 "2009-07-24T02:38:11Z")
What if say Neil and Buzz crashed on the moon and didn’t land on it. I know that NASA and Collins knew this could happen and had a plan for Collins to return home by himself, but what about after that. Would NASA try again with Apollo 12? I know we were trying to be the Soviets but how far would this setback change public support to try again?
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### Author:  [@ChrisBooth12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChrisBooth12)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2009, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-apollo-11-failed/504075/2 "2009-07-24T02:43:59Z")
typos and short edit windows.
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2009, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-apollo-11-failed/504075/3 "2009-07-24T02:45:41Z")
[President Nixon Was Prepared for Apollo Disaster:](http://www.space.com/news/090719-apollo11-40th-nixon.html)
> [@](#):
>
> "Fate has ordained that the men who went to the moon to explore in peace will stay on the moon to rest in peace.
> …
> "Others will follow, and surely find their way home. Man’s search will not be denied. But these men were the first, and they will remain the foremost in our hearts.
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### Author:  [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-apollo-11-failed/504075/4 "2009-07-24T02:49:25Z")
Apollo 12 still would’ve happened. The public was much more tolerant of risk back then. Hell, it would’ve been seen as a national disgrace if we _didn’t_ try again and they died in vain.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2009, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-apollo-11-failed/504075/5 "2009-07-24T03:12:55Z")
There were fatalities in the Apollo program, and they didn’t spell the end. A fire on the launchpad killed the three Apollo 1 astronauts, but they kept to the program (though admittedly, the next several missions were unmanned).
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### Author:  [@Darryl\_Lict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darryl_Lict)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2009, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-apollo-11-failed/504075/6 "2009-07-24T04:46:37Z")
[QUOTE=alphaboi867]
Apollo 12 still would’ve happened. The public was much more tolerant of risk back then. Hell, it would’ve been seen as a national disgrace if we didn’t try again and they died in vain.
[/QUOTE]
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> There were fatalities in the Apollo program, and they didn’t spell the end. A fire on the launchpad killed the three Apollo 1 astronauts, but they kept to the program (though admittedly, the next several missions were unmanned).
Yeah, read _The Right Stuff_. Them dudes were test pilots. Dying was a risk that everyone of them was willing to take.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2009, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-apollo-11-failed/504075/7 "2009-07-24T04:52:07Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> There were fatalities in the Apollo program, and they didn’t spell the end. A fire on the launchpad killed the three Apollo 1 astronauts, but they kept to the program (though admittedly, the next several missions were unmanned).
Even in 1967, there were those in the government who wanted to kill the program. But here’s what a test pilot said about the risks:
> [@Virgil I. 'Gus' Grissom](#):
>
> If we die, we want people to accept it. We are in a risky business, and we hope that if anything happens to us it will not delay the program. The conquest of space is worth the risk of life.
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### Author:  [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2009, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-apollo-11-failed/504075/8 "2009-07-24T04:58:03Z")
And for anyone who doesn’t know the signifigance, Gus Grissom was one of the three.
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### Author:  [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2009, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-apollo-11-failed/504075/9 "2009-07-24T05:07:33Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#):
>
> Apollo 12 still would’ve happened. The public was much more tolerant of risk back then. Hell, it would’ve been seen as a national disgrace if we _didn’t_ try again and they died in vain.
Has our risk tolerance changed that much? We still have the shuttle program, which has had more fatalities than anything that came before.
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### Author:  [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2009, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-apollo-11-failed/504075/10 "2009-07-24T05:11:51Z")
Remember, at that time, considering the casualties of the Vietnam War (approx. 58,000 dead) a few lives (in the context of WWII and Korea) were not as important to the public consciousness as they are now. It was a different time with a different frame of reference.
If Apollo 11 had failed and the powers that be had thought they had a reasonable chance that Apollo 12 would succeed they probably would have gone ahead in order to vindicate the program, especially with the Nixon mindset.
Apollo was not a scientific challenge, it was an engineering challenge. The people that worked on it didn’t have to come up with new scientific theories and solutions. They had to apply existing engineering principles and make it happen. Not easy, but totally doable if they were rigorous enough.
There was no reason why the moon landing couldn’t happen. It was more a matter of building enough redundancy into the system to make sure that anything that might have been overlooked wouldn’t doom the mission to disaster. Apollo 13 was a perfect example.
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### Author:  [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2009, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-apollo-11-failed/504075/11 "2009-07-24T13:12:37Z")
> [@Squink](#):
>
> [President Nixon Was Prepared for Apollo Disaster:](http://www.space.com/news/090719-apollo11-40th-nixon.html)
That is one HELL of a speech. Had disaster struck Apollo 11, that would have gone down in history as one of the greatest speeches of all time.
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### Author:  [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2009, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-apollo-11-failed/504075/12 "2009-07-24T13:32:21Z")
What I want to know is, did they have contingencies if the astronauts got stranded, say if the ascent engine on the lander failed? I’m not talking about rescue plans, which obviously would not have been feasible. I mean sleeping pills, cyanide, whatever… or were they just going to suffocate?
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### Author:  [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2009, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-apollo-11-failed/504075/13 "2009-07-24T14:01:32Z")
Michael Collins in his wonderful book (Carrying the Fire) relates it was a secret fear of his that he would return alone, forever a marked man.
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### Author:  [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2009, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-apollo-11-failed/504075/14 "2009-07-24T14:04:08Z")
> [@Ximenean](#):
>
> What I want to know is, did they have contingencies if the astronauts got stranded, say if the ascent engine on the lander failed? I’m not talking about rescue plans, which obviously would not have been feasible. I mean sleeping pills, cyanide, whatever… or were they just going to suffocate?
All they would have to do was depressurize the lander and they would have lost consciousness in seconds.
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### Author:  [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2009, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-apollo-11-failed/504075/15 "2009-07-24T14:07:19Z")
> [@Ximenean](#):
>
> What I want to know is, did they have contingencies if the astronauts got stranded, say if the ascent engine on the lander failed? I’m not talking about rescue plans, which obviously would not have been feasible. I mean sleeping pills, cyanide, whatever… or were they just going to suffocate?
The opening of Jim Lovell’s book “Lost Moon” deals with this. There were no pills. As noted by **kunilou** , a cabin depress would do the trick a lot faster.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2009, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-apollo-11-failed/504075/16 "2009-07-24T14:50:58Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#):
>
> And for anyone who doesn’t know the signifigance, Gus Grissom was one of the three.
Thanks. I just took it as granted that everyone knew.
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### Author:  [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2009, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-apollo-11-failed/504075/17 "2009-07-24T15:05:27Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Has our risk tolerance changed that much? We still have the shuttle program, which has had more fatalities than anything that came before
I dont see how it has. I guess there’s this romatic myth about how people today are less “manly” than those in the past, but I think thats just the fallacy of idealizing the past. We take huge risks in the space program. Granted, the lack of a space race has tamed it, but the space shuttle is still flying for trivial stuff like repairing the hubble or dropping off supplies at the ISS. Not exactly men on the moon scenarios here, yet we’re looking at something like 14 dead astronauts in the STS program alone.
If anything we’ve always been this safe. The Russian program I believe lost 50 guys at once with a rocket explosion and at least two dead cosmonauts.
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### Author:  [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2009, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-apollo-11-failed/504075/18 "2009-07-24T15:08:50Z")
> [@Ximenean](#):
>
> What I want to know is, did they have contingencies if the astronauts got stranded, say if the ascent engine on the lander failed? I’m not talking about rescue plans, which obviously would not have been feasible. I mean sleeping pills, cyanide, whatever… or were they just going to suffocate?
Buzz Aldrin addressed this in a TV special. He said that the idea of suicide would have never been an option for either one of them. He said that if the craft didn’t work that him and Armstrong would have used every ounce of oxygen trying to fix the ship until they “fell asleep”.
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### Author:  [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2009, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-apollo-11-failed/504075/19 "2009-07-24T15:09:50Z")
> [@Icerigger](#):
>
> Michael Collins in his wonderful book (Carrying the Fire) relates it was a secret fear of his that he would return alone, forever a marked man.
Not sure I understand. Why would Collins have been a marked man?
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-apollo-11-failed/504075/20 "2009-07-24T15:23:00Z")
> [@jtgain](#):
>
> Buzz Aldrin addressed this in a TV special. He said that the idea of suicide would have never been an option for either one of them. He said that if the craft didn’t work that him and Armstrong would have used every ounce of oxygen trying to fix the ship until they “fell asleep”.
That’s typical. Even civilian non-test pilots will fight to regain control to the end.
> [@jtgain](#):
>
> Not sure I understand. Why would Collins have been a marked man?
He’d be The Boy That Lived. People would point and say, ‘Look! There’s the guy who didn’t die like his crewmates!’ There’s also survivor’s guilt. As a test pilot, I think he’d lock it into a compartment. ‘Them’s the breaks of Naval warfare’, as my dad used to say. But you don’t want to leave your crew behind.
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