# What if Cheney had to step down? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 20, 2008, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-cheney-had-to-step-down/434267 "2008-01-20T16:15:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-cheney-had-to-step-down/434267/1 "2008-01-20T16:15:21Z")
Time for another step into the Conspiracy Zone… 😃 Imagine it’s a month or two’s time. Cheney’s heart gives way so Bush needs a new Veep. There’s a clear front-runner for the Republican nomination. Could Bush appoint that person? What would be the effect on the election in November? Or would he be more likely to appoint one of the losers, as a ‘consolation prize’? Or could he appoint a Veep-able Democrat like Richardson as a spoiler? ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-cheney-had-to-step-down/434267/2 "2008-01-20T16:21:31Z")
Well, if we’re going all out in a conspiracy mode on this, what if Bush appointed Condaleezza Rice as Vice-President, then resigns? The first Black President and the first woman President are both Republicans. Kinda takes the wind out of both Hilary’s and Obama’s sails. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-cheney-had-to-step-down/434267/3 "2008-01-20T16:43:17Z")
It would add an air of experience and incumbency to whoever he chose. I have toyed with the idea that it would be a good political move for the Repubs. I half expect it. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-cheney-had-to-step-down/434267/4 "2008-01-20T16:49:15Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] Time for another step into the Conspiracy Zone… 😃 Imagine it’s a month or two’s time. Cheney’s heart gives way so Bush needs a new Veep. There’s a clear front-runner for the Republican nomination. Could Bush appoint that person? What would be the effect on the election in November? Or would he be more likely to appoint one of the losers, as a ‘consolation prize’? Or could he appoint a Veep-able Democrat like Richardson as a spoiler? [/QUOTE] > [@United States Constitution](#): > > 1. Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress. Do you really think that the Democrats, currently in control of both houses of Congress, would confirm the choice in that scenario? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-cheney-had-to-step-down/434267/5 "2008-01-20T16:54:02Z")
Whoever he appoints has to be approved by both houses of congress, so it’s unlikely that they’d approve someone like that. ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-cheney-had-to-step-down/434267/6 "2008-01-20T18:06:45Z")
[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] Do you really think that the Democrats, currently in control of both houses of Congress, would confirm the choice in that scenario? [/QUOTE] I think that if Bush selected the Presidential nominee, it would be a marvelous chance for both Houses of Congress to aggressively pile on the nominee, and then vote to defeat him to his great embarrassment. Even if he survived Congress, it would be a bruising experience. On the other hand, if he selected Rice (particularly with less than a year remaining in his term), I have no doubt that her nomination would quickly and easily (though not without protest) pass through Congress. Though she is seen as bearing a great deal of responsibility for the foreign policy missteps of the Bush Administration, there is a countervailing view that she was marginalized by the Cheney-Rumsfeld neo-con cabal, and it wasn’t all that much her fault. It would be difficult for a Congress with a very slim Democratic majority to oppose her because if even a few Democrats feel that they will not oppose her (whether due to race and gender issues or otherwise) they, combined with a monolithic Republican bloc, will be enough to ensure her approval. If she’s going to be approved anyway, I think a large number of Democrats will vote for her to avoid making it into a polarizing race/gender issue, which would be bad for them all. (In fact, she probably would win or at least tie the Senate because Lieberman would likely support her.) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-cheney-had-to-step-down/434267/7 "2008-01-20T18:57:10Z")
I’ve said all along that Bush would choose Rice as a VP if Cheney stepped down. Bush considers two people as his “successors”: Rice and his brother Jeb. Rice would be a relatively easy confirmation as VP because it wouldn’t affect the election and she’d have some crossover support. A Rice VP would help the Republicans in November by acting as a partial counterweight with black and female voters to Obama or Clinton. And if the Democrats win the Presidency (which I think everyone concedes is possible) then it would strengthen Rice as a candidate for 2012. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-cheney-had-to-step-down/434267/8 "2008-01-20T22:03:27Z")
Rice has made it clear that she does not want the Presidency. This would tend to put a choice of her for VP “above politics” (to the extent that such a thing is possible.) Plus she is so obviously qualified a candidate as to remove as much as possible the odium of tokenism. And she was qualified long before Obama entered the scene, so it would be clear that Bush was not selecting her simply because of her race or sex. It would be good for the country, not merely the GOP. Democrats who protested her choice would have to be careful not to phrase their objections in terms of race - otherwise they would be making clear how subject _they_ were to the idea of tokenism. If they support a candidate merely because of his or her race, then they should support Rice (and their support for Obama becomes that much less credible). If they object to Rice based on her qualifications, that much the better - the debate then switches back to Obama’s qualifications - or lack thereof. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-cheney-had-to-step-down/434267/9 "2008-01-20T22:20:27Z")
[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] Do you really think that the Democrats, currently in control of both houses of Congress, would confirm the choice in that scenario? :smack: [/QUOTE] Why would they confirm **any** choice? Leaving the vice presidency vacant leaves Pelosi a heartbeat away from the OO. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-cheney-had-to-step-down/434267/10 "2008-01-20T22:37:25Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Why would they confirm **any** choice? Leaving the vice presidency vacant leaves Pelosi a heartbeat away from the OO. 😉 [/QUOTE] Excellent point. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-cheney-had-to-step-down/434267/11 "2008-01-20T22:37:37Z")
The dems have approved every nasty choice that Bush has offered for years. Why do you think they would develop a pair now? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-cheney-had-to-step-down/434267/12 "2008-01-20T22:45:00Z")
OK, so what would happen if Condi were nominated VP and then nominated as VP nominee by the nominee? ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-cheney-had-to-step-down/434267/13 "2008-01-20T23:11:12Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] Rice has made it clear that she does not want the Presidency. This would tend to put a choice of her for VP “above politics” (to the extent that such a thing is possible.) Plus she is so obviously qualified a candidate as to remove as much as possible the odium of tokenism. [/QUOTE] What exactly are her qualifications again? To me, all the natter about Obama lacking experience sounds a little like the bridge crew of the Titanic complaining about someone’s lack of experience because “He’s never hit an iceberg before.” I mean sure, she’s got experience, but at what? So objectively, what foreign policy achievements has Condoleezza Rice made? (edited to add) **gonzomax** , that was harsh. Funny as hell, but harsh. I almost spit out some pretty good scotch. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-cheney-had-to-step-down/434267/14 "2008-01-20T23:34:39Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] OK, so what would happen if Condi were nominated VP and then nominated as VP nominee by the nominee? [/QUOTE] We’d have to start cleaning pig shit off our rooves. No candidate wants to associate himself with Bush. She can only hurt the nominee. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-cheney-had-to-step-down/434267/15 "2008-01-20T23:39:39Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] Rice …is so obviously qualified a candidate [/quote] Obvious to you, perhaps. But what record do you base that on? The wonderful success of her administration’s Iraq warmongering, perhaps? Seriously, \*what \* qualifications are so obvious to you? > [@](#): > > it would be clear that Bush was not selecting her simply because of her race or sex. Of course not. Perish the thought. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Democrats who protested her choice would have to be careful not to phrase their objections in terms of race No need. It’s easy enough to object to her job performance. And much more appropriately, of course. But then there are those for whom her Republicanism blinds them to her monstrous failures in her current job. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-cheney-had-to-step-down/434267/16 "2008-01-20T23:48:57Z")
> [@](#): > > OK, so what would happen if Condi were nominated VP and then nominated as VP nominee by the nominee? I can’t see this happening. First, the Bush administration’s foreign policy hasn’t been a popular success - and Rice is a symbol of that policy. Second, it’s extremely likely that the Democratic nominee is going to be a woman or a black man - for the Republicans to respond by choosing a black woman as a Vice-Presidential nominee would not send a message they want to send. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-cheney-had-to-step-down/434267/17 "2008-01-20T23:51:58Z")
I posted this earlier, but a hamster ate it. I think Bush would pick Lieberman. The GOP respects him, the DEMS hate him but know he is at least a big step up from Cheney. I think the DEMS would have a tough time filibustering a VP pick. That is a bit higher profile than circuit judge. I think most middle of the road voters would probably recognize the need of filling the second highest constitutional office. Playing politics in that case would only distract from the DEMS chances of retaking the White House. Equally, Bush probably doesn’t want an unnecessary fight as he works to leave some semblance of a positive legacy in his final year. Lieberman threads the needle nicely for both. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-cheney-had-to-step-down/434267/18 "2008-01-20T23:55:45Z")
But, don’t you get it? It would put one over on the Demoncrats! It’d really show 'em good if the GOP had a black AND a woman in office first, wouldn’t it? It’d reassure the GOP voter base that the Southern Strategy has been all about _policies_, not race, right? That does seem to be her primary “qualification”, unfortunately - since we ever get anything else (anything factual and reasonably unspun, that is) presented to us. Oh, yeah, in the OP scenario, Bush would veto any nomination Congress actually passed simply out of habit. Doesn’t matter who. And if it’s Lieberman, that gives the Democrats a majority in the Senate. Won’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-cheney-had-to-step-down/434267/19 "2008-01-21T00:24:35Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Oh, yeah, in the OP scenario, Bush would veto any nomination Congress actually passed simply out of habit. Doesn’t matter who. And if it’s Lieberman, that gives the Democrats a majority in the Senate. Won’t happen. [/QUOTE] First of all, the President has to nominate someone to be VP. The President can’t veto a nomination, he makes it. Second, Democrats already have the majority in the Senate. In any case, there’s zero chance it’d be Lieberman: if Bush appointed a pro-choice, anti-tax cut VP, I’d eat my hat with a dab of wasabi. I think Rice would be possible in this outlandish scenario, but you said it exactly right: Rice has exactly zero good accomplishments in her service to the Administration. I am still blown away by how she escaped any personal responsibility for the failures leading up to 9/11, Iraq, and even the difficulties in post-war Afghanistan. As National Security Adviser she was the one person who was supposed to know what was going on between DOD, CIA, FBI, State, and all other national security organs. The failures of those agencies to communicate with each other is due to the breakdown of interagency cooperation, which is the entire f-ing point we have a National Security Adviser in the first place. She should have been fired, not promoted to Secretary of State. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-cheney-had-to-step-down/434267/20 "2008-01-21T00:43:00Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Oh, yeah, in the OP scenario, Bush would veto any nomination Congress actually passed simply out of habit. Doesn’t matter who. [/QUOTE] What are you talking about? Congress doesn’t nominate a VP. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-cheney-had-to-step-down/434267.md?page=2)