# What if Chile's President Allende had not been overthrown in 1973? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 18, 2005, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-chiles-president-allende-had-not-been-overthrown-in-1973/336219 "2005-12-18T23:21:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-chiles-president-allende-had-not-been-overthrown-in-1973/336219/1 "2005-12-18T23:21:58Z")
This thread – [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=349921](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=349921) – on the impending election of a socialist (and coca-farming activist), Evo Morales, as president of Bolivia, got me to thinking: In 1970, Salvador Allende, an avowed socialist, was elected president of Chile. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvador\_Allende](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvador_Allende) In 1973, he was overthrown in a military coup d’etat and murdered, and General Augusto Pinochet ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augusto\_Pinochet](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augusto_Pinochet)) rolled back all of Allende’s socialist programs and ruled Chile as a military dictator until 1990. What if the coup had failed? Would the landscape of South America today be significantly different? Or not? I read once (in _Time_ magazine – never an unbiased source where Communism is concerned) that Allende’s policies weren’t working out too well and he probably would have been defeated in the next election in any case. Also, was Pinochet’s coup arranged/backed by the CIA, or not? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-chiles-president-allende-had-not-been-overthrown-in-1973/336219/2 "2005-12-18T23:56:19Z")
Arranged? Possible. Backed? There is no doubt: [http://archives.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/americas/11/13/cia.chile.02/](http://archives.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/americas/11/13/cia.chile.02/) > [@](#): > > “Actions approved by the U.S. government during this period aggravated political polarization and affected Chile’s long tradition of democratic elections and respect for the constitutional order and the rule of law,” the White House said in a statement. > > Among the information contained in the documents released Monday: > > • The CIA provided secret funding to Chilean opposition parties in the early 1970s to try to undermine Allende’s government. > > • The funding had been approved by U.S. officials just three weeks before Allende was toppled by Pinochet. > > • The Christian Democratic Party – now Chile’s largest party – and the Radical Party of the Left had received the money from the CIA. U.S. officials blacked out the names of other recipients. > > • The CIA had given Christian Democratic candidates funding as early as 1964. > > Senate committee findings > Kornbluh told CNN that the CIA – which provided $350,000 to help fund the coup – had not played a direct role in the coup. > > CIA officials had previously said the agency had not instigated the coup, but had been aware of military plotting to overthrow Allende. > > However, a Senate committee chaired by Sen. Frank Church, D-Idaho, had confirmed that the CIA had participated in covert operations in Chile, and that the agency had attempted to foment a military coup in 1970 after Allende had been elected president. > **[1973 Chilean coup d'état](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilean_coup_of_1973)** > > Chilean Government > Chilean Armed Forces > The 1973 Chilean coup d'état was a military coup in Chile that deposed the Popular Unity government of President Salvador Allende. On 11 September 1973, after an extended period of social unrest and political tension between the opposition-controlled Congress and the socialist President, as well as economic war ordered by U.S. President Richard Nixon, a group of military officers led by General Augusto Pinochet seized power in a coup, ending civilian ... > [@](#): > > The CIA was notified by contacts of the impending Pinochet coup two days in advance, but contends it “played no direct role in” the coup. On September 16, 1973, after Pinochet had assumed power, the following exchange about the coup took place between U.S. National Security Advisor Henry Kissinger and President Richard Nixon: > > \*Nixon: Nothing new of any importance or is there? > Kissinger: Nothing of very great consequence. The Chilean thing is getting consolidated and of course the newspapers are bleeding because a pro-Communist government has been overthrown. > Nixon: Isn’t that something. Isn’t that something. > Kissinger: I mean instead of celebrating – in the Eisenhower period we would be heroes. > Nixon: Well we didn’t – as you know – our hand doesn’t show on this one though. > Kissinger: We didn’t do it. I mean we helped them. [Garbled] created the conditions as great as possible. > Nixon: That is right. And that is the way it is going to be played. [21] \* > > Immediately after the Allende government came into office, the U.S. sought to place economic pressure on Chile. U.S. National Security Council documents, later ordered released by U.S. President Bill Clinton [22], include decision memorandum no. 93, dated November 9, 1970, written by Kissinger and addressed to the heads of diplomatic, defense and intelligence departments. This document stated that pressure should be placed on the Allende government to prevent its consolidation and limit its ability to implement policies contrary to U.S. and hemispheric interests, such as Allende’s total nationalization of several foreign corporations and the copper industry. Specifically, Nixon directed that no new bilateral economic aid commitments be undertaken with the government of Chile [Kissinger, 1970]. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-chiles-president-allende-had-not-been-overthrown-in-1973/336219/3 "2005-12-19T00:04:10Z")
I think the general consensus is that, while US government actions might have helped destabilize the Chilean government which encouraged a coup, and the US was glad to see Allende overthrown, the US didn’t participate in the coup itself. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-chiles-president-allende-had-not-been-overthrown-in-1973/336219/4 "2005-12-19T03:35:42Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > I think the general consensus is that, while US government actions might have helped destabilize the Chilean government which encouraged a coup, and the US was glad to see Allende overthrown, the US didn’t participate in the coup itself. And what is the source/cite for that “consensus”? But let’s not get sidetracked. U.S. involvement/noninvolvement in the coup is incidental – this is a “what if” thread. ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-chiles-president-allende-had-not-been-overthrown-in-1973/336219/5 "2005-12-19T12:23:38Z")
> [@](#): > > _BrainGlutton_ > But let’s not get sidetracked. U.S. involvement/noninvolvement in the coup is incidental – this is a “what if” thread. I’m not sure that’s right. The degree to which Chile’s poor economic situation was due to misguided policy, pervasive Southern Cone inflation, the great decline in Chile’s terms of trade (mainly the price of copper) and sabotage caused directly or indirectly by the CIA _is_ important to answer your question. If the destabilisation campaign preceding the coup was (say) 50% of the bad news for the Chilean economy rather than 10%, the prospects for the Allende government would have been rather better in the absence of the coup. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-chiles-president-allende-had-not-been-overthrown-in-1973/336219/6 "2005-12-19T13:31:47Z")
Salvador Allende wasn’t murdered. He committed suicide. Allendes policies didn’t just not work very well. They were disastrously bad. Production was failing in the nationalised companies, foreign investments were annihilated, capital was fleeing the country, the country was rife with strikes, there were constant shortages, there was a hyperinflation going on and he had foolishly used up the foreign exchange reserves for short term pay rises (wiped out by the inflation). Salvador Allende is often and mistakenly portrayed as a kind of Swedish Social democrat. However his inspirations, and goals, were otherwise – they were more in line with the Soviet, DDR and Cuba. Had he not been toppled – and had his, increasingly dictatorial regime, managed to hold on to power till today, Chile would likely had been much like Cuba today. An international isolated, impoverished, totalitarian regime. It is worth noting that his democratic legitimacy was of a very doubtful nature in the last period of his reign. He had for all practical purposes circumvented the normal democratic institution, vetoed everything from the parliament and ruled the country by decree. It was the parliament (and supreme court) that called his rule unconstitutional and for the military to step in – perhaps they got more than what they bargained for. Also, apparently, he had some little Nazi pet theories he was very fond of. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-chiles-president-allende-had-not-been-overthrown-in-1973/336219/7 "2005-12-19T14:09:21Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Allendes policies didn’t just not work very well. They were disastrously bad. Production was failing in the nationalised companies, foreign investments were annihilated, capital was fleeing the country, the country was rife with strikes, there were constant shortages, there was a hyperinflation going on and he had foolishly used up the foreign exchange reserves for short term pay rises (wiped out by the inflation). Salvador Allende is often and mistakenly portrayed as a kind of Swedish Social democrat. However his inspirations, and goals, were otherwise – they were more in line with the Soviet, DDR and Cuba. Had he not been toppled – and had his, increasingly dictatorial regime, managed to hold on to power till today, Chile would likely had been much like Cuba today. An international isolated, impoverished, totalitarian regime. It is worth noting that his democratic legitimacy was of a very doubtful nature in the last period of his reign. He had for all practical purposes circumvented the normal democratic institution, vetoed everything from the parliament and ruled the country by decree. It was the parliament (and supreme court) that called his rule unconstitutional and for the military to step in – perhaps they got more than what they bargained for. Cites? Especially for Allende “subverting the democratic process.” > [@Rune](#): > > Also, apparently, he had some little Nazi pet theories he was very fond of. Minor point – [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvador\_Allende#Legacy\_and\_debate:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvador_Allende#Legacy_and_debate:) > [@](#): > > Recent controversy has surrounded Allende’s 1933 doctoral dissertation “Mental Hygiene and Delinquency”, the subject of a recent book by Victor Farías of the Free University of Berlin. In his book, Farías claims that Allende held racist and anti-semitic views. However, these allegations were recently rebutted by the Allende Foundation, that published the dissertation on the Internet ([http://www.elclarin.cl/hemeroteca.html](http://www.elclarin.cl/hemeroteca.html)). The foundation claims Allende was merely quoting Italian scientist Cesare Lombroso, whereas he himself was critical of these theories. Farías maintains the affirmations that appear in his book. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-chiles-president-allende-had-not-been-overthrown-in-1973/336219/8 "2005-12-19T14:29:46Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Arranged? Possible. > Backed? There is no doubt: > > > [@](#): > > > > • The CIA provided secret funding to Chilean opposition parties in the early 1970s to try to undermine Allende’s government. > > > > • The Christian Democratic Party – now Chile’s largest party – and the Radical Party of the Left had received the money from the CIA. U.S. officials blacked out the names of other recipients. > > > > • The CIA had given Christian Democratic candidates funding as early as 1964. [And Salvador Allende opposition party received large sums from the KGB.](http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12682679.htm) (and Denmark funds political parties in Germany.) ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-chiles-president-allende-had-not-been-overthrown-in-1973/336219/9 "2005-12-19T14:32:28Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Minor point – [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvador\_Allende#Legacy\_and\_debate:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvador_Allende#Legacy_and_debate:) What do you mean “minor point”? It’s besides the point for this thread, and only goes to the misplaced admiration put in him by some leftwing groupies - much like that other equally undeserving communist icon Che Guevara. But I find the overall balance of the Wikipedia article to be more than a little skewered – including this paragraph, which reads as if the “allegations” by Farías have been undeniable rebutted and can now be considered untrue. Which is not the case. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-chiles-president-allende-had-not-been-overthrown-in-1973/336219/10 "2005-12-19T14:51:37Z")
I don’t much like the one-sided way cites are being trotted out on SDMB, often more for their obstruction than for any true wish for debate. However even Wikipedia at one time apparently had the information Subverting democracy: > [@](#): > > As the economic problems heightened, Allende tried to rule by decree, using what he termed resquicios legales (legal loopholes), thus ignoring Congress and the office of the General Comptroller. He also angered the Judicial branch when he refused to allow the use of public force to carry out the judicial sentences that he felt were against “the revolutionary process”. [http://www.answers.com/topic/salvador-allende](http://www.answers.com/topic/salvador-allende) - now seemingly gone from Wikipedia. > [@](#): > > on August 22 the Chamber of Deputies (with the Christian Democrats now firmly uniting with the National Party) accused Allende’s government of unconstitutional acts and called on the military ministers to assure the constitutional order - from your own Wikipedia cite. Another take. Not in the least unbiased – but one unbiased source can be as good as the next: > [@](#): > > Instead, Allende’s government embarked on an immediate radical program, exploiting loopholes in Chilean law to radically increase the rate of nationalization of the economy. Factories shut down due to directed agitation by UP workers could be ‘requisitioned’ to government service, as could factories in ‘key industries’ that didn’t produce enough vital commodities (suffering also from ‘convenient’ work stoppages or slowdowns by UP members). Instead of maintaining the institution of property and the respect for the spirit of the law, Allende’s government brushed it aside in the name of ‘reform’. > [@](#): > > Institutions matter. Prior to Allende, Chile had an underlying culture that was peaceful, orderly, and relatively prosperous. Allende’s regime systematically knocked out every underpinning of that evolved order, from destroying the respect for the rule of law amongst the people, to encouraging the expression of political frustration with street level violence, to popularizing the idea of the imperial president who rules by decree, [http://catallarchy.net/blog/archives/2005/05/01/salvador-allende-the-herald-of-pinochet/](http://catallarchy.net/blog/archives/2005/05/01/salvador-allende-the-herald-of-pinochet/) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-chiles-president-allende-had-not-been-overthrown-in-1973/336219/11 "2005-12-19T18:18:30Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > [And Salvador Allende opposition party received large sums from the KGB.](http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12682679.htm) (and Denmark funds political parties in Germany.) So what? ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-chiles-president-allende-had-not-been-overthrown-in-1973/336219/12 "2005-12-19T18:34:34Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I read once (in _Time_ magazine – never an unbiased source where Communism is concerned) that Allende’s policies weren’t working out too well and he probably would have been defeated in the next election in any case. From your Wikipedia cite: > [@](#): > > …the Chilean Constitution did not allow a president to hold two consecutive terms, but allowed multiple non-consecutive ones… So Allende couldn’t run for a second term immediately anyway. Also note this: > [@](#): > > Others view Allende much less favorably. He is criticized for his government’s mass nationalization of private industry, alleged friendliness with more militant groups such as the **Movement of the Revolutionary Left** , and the supply shortages and hyperinflation that occurred during the latter years of his presidency; all these had combined to cause a significant decline in his popularity and the committed opposition of the Christian Democratic Party at the time of the coup. He is also accused of having had an autocratic style, attempting to circumvent the Congress and having a hostile attitude toward critical media. > [@](#): > > Movimiento de Izquierda Revolucionaria (MIR) ( **Movement of the Revolutionary Left** ) is a Chilean political party (extreme-left) founded on October 12, 1965. The group emerged from various student organziations and established a base of support among the trade unions and shantytowns of Santiago. Andrés Pascal Allende, a nephew of Salvador Allende, president of Chile from 1970 to 1973, was one of its early leaders. > > MIR considered itself a revolutionary vanguard and advocated a Marxist-Leninist model of revolution in which it would lead the working class to a “dictatorship of the proletariat”. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-chiles-president-allende-had-not-been-overthrown-in-1973/336219/13 "2005-12-19T18:40:27Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > From your Wikipedia cite: > > So Allende couldn’t run for a second term immediately anyway. > > Also note this: Those are interesting facts, but how do they bear on the thread topic (what would have happened if Allende had not been overthrown)? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-chiles-president-allende-had-not-been-overthrown-in-1973/336219/14 "2005-12-19T22:45:24Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Salvador Allende wasn’t murdered. He committed suicide. And that exonerates the coup perpetrators? Even if that was true, it does not take away the fact that that happened because Pinochet was mercilessly killing his supporters. > [@](#): > > Allendes policies didn’t just not work very well. They were disastrously bad. Production was failing in the nationalised companies, foreign investments were annihilated, capital was fleeing the country, the country was rife with strikes, there were constant shortages, there was a hyperinflation going on and he had foolishly used up the foreign exchange reserves for short term pay rises (wiped out by the inflation). And obviously then he was going to lose the next elections, the lack of patience shown by the military and right wing in Chile was typical for fascists. > [@](#): > > Salvador Allende is often and mistakenly portrayed as a kind of Swedish Social democrat. However his inspirations, and goals, were otherwise – they were more in line with the Soviet, DDR and Cuba. Had he not been toppled – and had his, increasingly dictatorial regime, managed to hold on to power till today, Chile would likely had been much like Cuba today. An international isolated, impoverished, totalitarian regime. The example of Nicaragua, were elections did continue and that the Sandinistas eventually lost, shows that this was ultimately a lie. > [@](#): > > It is worth noting that his democratic legitimacy was of a very doubtful nature in the last period of his reign. He had for all practical purposes circumvented the normal democratic institution, vetoed everything from the parliament and ruled the country by decree. It was the parliament (and supreme court) that called his rule unconstitutional and for the military to step in – perhaps they got more than what they bargained for. > > Also, apparently, he had some little Nazi pet theories he was very fond of. Lets see, as usual to me it counts more what they did than what they said, it is really disconcerting that \*\*Rune \*\* is just saying this without taking into account what the people got after the coup: the military ruled through a junta headed by General Augusto Pinochet Ugarte. \*\*It immediately suspended the constitution, dissolved Congress, imposed strict censorship, and banned all political parties. In addition, it embarked on a campaign of terror against leftist elements in the country. Thousands were arrested; many were executed, tortured, or exiled, while still others languished in prison or simply disappeared. \*\* No, the substitute was still worse. And that lead us to an answer to BrainGlutton: In Chile, if cooler heads had prevailed, Allende would have gone to a complete defeat in the next elections, as \*\*elucidator \*\* used to say: Democracy is not for wimps. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-chiles-president-allende-had-not-been-overthrown-in-1973/336219/15 "2005-12-19T22:50:43Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Those are interesting facts, but how do they bear on the thread topic (what would have happened if Allende had not been overthrown)? It doesn’t make much sense to remove a head of state that will be out of power in three years anyway. Unless there are reasons to fear that this head of state is plotting to grab dictatorial powers. Nowadays, there is a monument to Allende in front _La Moneda_. Perhaps if Allende wasn’t removed you would see a whole lot more monuments to him in Santiago (like in every public square). ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-chiles-president-allende-had-not-been-overthrown-in-1973/336219/16 "2005-12-20T00:08:01Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > It doesn’t make much sense to remove a head of state that will be out of power in three years anyway. Unless there are reasons to fear that this head of state is plotting to grab dictatorial powers. Or unless your plan is to end the practice of regular Presidential elections in the process, so that you can hold power indefinitely. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-chiles-president-allende-had-not-been-overthrown-in-1973/336219/17 "2005-12-20T00:23:28Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > So what? So if CIA support of Chilean opposition parties is an indication, as GIGObuster seems to say, that the US backed and possible arranged for Allende’s fall, then surely the fact that the KGB supported Allende’s Socialist/Communist alliance (when in opposition) is an indication that the KGB backed and possible arranged for the previous government’s fall. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > And that exonerates the coup perpetrators? Where did I say that? I just addressed a small factual error made in the OP. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > And obviously then he was going to lose the next elections Maybe. Maybe not. In the election early 1973 he had just increased his percentage a fraction. In any case the country was at this point already dangerously unstable and bitterly political divided as well as in near chaos. The previous president, Frei, believed Chile was heading for a civil war and that Pinochet had save the country from such a bloody war. The crimes of destabilizing the country, undermining the democratic institutions and instigating near revolution rests solely on Allende’s shoulders. It was his policies and his incompetent rule that had brought an erstwhile fairly democratic nation to the brink of revolution. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Lets see, as usual to me it counts more what they did than what they said, it is really disconcerting that Rune is just saying this without taking into account what the people got after the coup Why should I. The crimes of Pinochet is not up for debate. Nobody disputes them. The debate was what Chile would have have turned out without the coup of 1973. The answer is most likely the same as it is now and another coup in 1974. There had already been one attempt before Pinochet. Allende knew he couldn’t trust either of the military or police. If Pinochet had failed or not made the attempt, I recon some other officer would have. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-chiles-president-allende-had-not-been-overthrown-in-1973/336219/18 "2005-12-20T01:06:05Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > It doesn’t make much sense to remove a head of state that will be out of power in three years anyway. Unless there are reasons to fear that this head of state is plotting to grab dictatorial powers. > > Nowadays, there is a monument to Allende in front _La Moneda_. Perhaps if Allende wasn’t removed you would see a whole lot more monuments to him in Santiago (like in every public square). Don’t think so, Like in Nicaragua, elections were not suspended and it turned out that the Sandinistas did know that not steping down after losing was the end of them. If they had not stepped down, then all the other latin american nations the Nicaraguan people and the US would had a good reason to intervene. Same thing would have occurred in Chile, Allende would be remembered now, but no statues at all would be there. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-chiles-president-allende-had-not-been-overthrown-in-1973/336219/19 "2005-12-20T01:17:46Z")
Just so we can argue about the US involvement in Chile with facts From [The National Security Archive at George Washington University](http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/index.html) here’s,[Chile and the United States: Declassified Documents relating to the Military Coup, 1970-1976](http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB8/nsaebb8.htm) and here’s the CIA’s documents, [SUBJECT: CIA Activities in Chile](http://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/chile). [ > [@](#): > > In response to a November 27 directive from Kissinger, an inter-agency Ad Hoc Working Group on Chile prepared this set of strategy papers covering a range of possible sanctions and pressures against the new Allende government. These included a possible diplomatic effort to force Chile to withdraw–or be expelled–from the Organization of American States as well as consultations with other Latin American countries “to promote their sharing of our concern over Chile.” The documents show that the Nixon administration did engage in an invisible economic blockade against Allende, intervening at the World Bank, IDB, and Export-Import bank to curtail or terminate credits and loans to Chile before Allende had been in office for a month. ]([http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB8/nsaebb8.htm](http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB8/nsaebb8.htm)) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-chiles-president-allende-had-not-been-overthrown-in-1973/336219/20 "2005-12-20T01:24:14Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Salvador Allende wasn’t murdered. He committed suicide. From what I remember from my Latin American studies course (and I could be wrong, I’ll look it up), they’ve never been able to prove it either way. His estate was bombed, I believe, and he either was killed in the bombing or took his own life. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-chiles-president-allende-had-not-been-overthrown-in-1973/336219.md?page=2)