# What if Christianity never existed? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 3, 2001, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-christianity-never-existed/85150 "2001-10-03T09:22:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-christianity-never-existed/85150/21 "2001-10-05T13:49:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NiceGuyJack \* > \*\* > Islam is younger than Christianity. The question is was it born out of Christianity or was it born out of Judaism? Good point about how Islam would have been radically different. Before the Christian crusades, Islam was much more secular and peaceful. Christian fanaticism gave rise to Islamic fanaticism. \*\* ! 610: Mohammed receives his first communique from God. 632: Muslims wage war against Byzantine and Persian empires. 637: Ctesiphon, the Person capital, conquered 638: Jerusalem conquered fter Battle of Yarmouk 641: What is now Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq conquered 656: Caliph Uthman murdered by political rivals 661: His replacement, Ali, murdered by political rivals 662: Egypt conquered 669: Conquest of North Africa completed 710: Spain invaded 711: Afghanistan and Pakistan invaded 717: War with Byzantine empire; ultimately unsuccessful 718: Spain (and Portugal, I think) conquered 732: Invasion of France stopped at Battle of Poitiers I don’t think Christianity had a similar record of virtually non-stop warfare in its first 122 year of existence. IIRC, during that time Christians mostly just got eaten by lions. (Which makes the appeal a little hard to grasp.) ---
**Author:** ![Wildest\_Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Wildest\_Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildest_Bill)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-christianity-never-existed/85150/22 "2001-10-05T13:49:05Z")
I think the world would been alot nastier place IF in fact, God didn’t destroy it again already. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-christianity-never-existed/85150/23 "2001-10-05T15:34:58Z")
On the subject of Christianity vs Mithraism, I’ve read that Christianity’s big advantage was that it treated women as second class citizens. Which may not seem like much today, but by the standards of the 2nd century, this was an enlightened stance towards women’s rights. Mithraism, like most other religions of the era, treated women like property. So while the soldiers and businessmen of the Empire were worshiping Mithras or Jupiter, the women were worshiping Jesus (and raising the children). So every generation ended up with more Christians and fewer Mithraists. ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-christianity-never-existed/85150/24 "2001-10-08T05:40:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wildest Bill \* > \*\*I think the world would been alot nastier place IF in fact, God didn’t destroy it again already. \*\* Why so? -Ben ---
**Author:** ![scampering\_gremlin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@scampering\_gremlin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scampering_gremlin)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-christianity-never-existed/85150/25 "2001-10-08T06:00:42Z")
In terms of the big picture the question that really intrigues me has less to do with which religion might have taken Christianity’s place and more to do with whether another religion might have survived the fall of Rome. Every other institution in the western empire collapsed during the fifth century. Since the Renaissance was largely fueled by reviving the remaining classical art and learning in Western Europe, and since Europe’s conquest of other parts of the world (particularly the Americas) was a fairly direct result of the Renaissance, the world today might look like a very different place if a few ancient manuscripts hadn’t survived. Anyone for a guess as to what Mithraism (or any other ancient cult) might have become as an organizational structure? ---
**Author:** ![Essured](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Essured](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Essured)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-christianity-never-existed/85150/26 "2001-10-08T07:23:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mangetout \* > \*\*If Christianity did not exist, it would be necessary to invent it \*\* there is an alternate theory that this may have already happened 🙂 Ooops, wrong thread. Just stirring Mangetout 😛 ---
**Author:** ![NiceGuyJack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/niceguyjack/32/3069_2.png) [@NiceGuyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NiceGuyJack)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2001, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-christianity-never-existed/85150/27 "2001-10-09T02:50:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by scampering gremlin \* > \*\* > Since the Renaissance was largely fueled by reviving the remaining classical art and learning in Western Europe, and since Europe’s conquest of other parts of the world (particularly the Americas) was a fairly direct result of the Renaissance, the world today might look like a very different place if a few ancient manuscripts hadn’t survived. > \*\* Could you imagine what it would be like if all of it survived? One of the sad aspects of the Renaissance is that so much of the ancient knowledge had to be _re-discovered_. It’s possible we could have reached our current state of advancement 200-300 years ago if only we could have started where the ancients left off. Alas we had to backtrack. ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2001, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-christianity-never-existed/85150/28 "2001-10-11T22:37:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wildest Bill \* > \*\*I think the world would been alot nastier place IF in fact, God didn’t destroy it again already. \*\* Wildest Bill, why would the world be a lot nastier simply because Christianity didn’t exist? Taking this comment with some of the other things you’ve said, it sounds like you think non-Christians are less moral than Christians. -Ben [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-christianity-never-existed/85150.md?page=1)