# What If...? (Disney+ Series) \[Open Spoilers After First Post\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** disney-hulu, cartoons-animation\ **Created:** [August 11, 2021, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-disney-series-open-spoilers-after-first-post/948478 "2021-08-11T23:39:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![jadielyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jadielyn/32/8808_2.png) [@jadielyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jadielyn)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2021, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-disney-series-open-spoilers-after-first-post/948478/141 "2021-08-28T21:16:52Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > In this alt-timeline, the divergence seems to be that Fury successfully recruited Hope as a SHIELD agent some time after Janet disappeared and was presumed dead on a SHIELD mission. Hope then died on a SHIELD mission. Fair enough summary, that helps. 🙂 I’ll just leave the audio mismatch of “died two years ago” while showing an account name that “died” long before that as a Marvel No-Prize for someone else to work out. 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2021, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-disney-series-open-spoilers-after-first-post/948478/142 "2021-08-28T21:19:55Z")
Ya know, if you’ve got Captain Marvel, do you really need any more Avengers? ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2021, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-disney-series-open-spoilers-after-first-post/948478/143 "2021-08-28T21:24:50Z")
Well, someone’s got to give her moral support… More seriously, Captain Marvel’s powers derive from an Infinity Stone, and the Asgardians actually know quite a bit about them. Loki or Odin might actually be able to counter or negate them. And Captain Marvel is canonically vulnerable to mind control. She broke free of her Kree conditioning, but Loki might be able to at least briefly enchant her, or at least confuse her with illusions. ---
**Author:** ![jadielyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jadielyn/32/8808_2.png) [@jadielyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jadielyn)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2021, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-disney-series-open-spoilers-after-first-post/948478/144 "2021-08-28T21:27:40Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > At the point Tony dies, has he built the War Machine suit yet? The Big Donut hangover we see in Ep 3 was after Rhodes had flown off in the silver Mark II suit and delivered it to the Air Force where it was later upgraded with Hammer tech. So, the original IM2 style War Machine with the dud “Ex-Wife” missile and all. (Although I like to think the Ex-Wife was just fired from too close a range for the warhead to arm properly, it was still a good gag) Forgot about Ivan Vanko. Perhaps Loki’s invasion put the kibosh on Vanko’s drone-suit takeover, I’ll bet Ivan was peeved at having his revenge stolen away. Not sure about Hulk, I don’t think we had Abomination yet. Now I want to connect the dots between Vanko’s drone suits and Stark’s Iron Legion, that after IM2 Stark was like “Yeah he was trying to kill me at the time but that was a darn good idea, I can do it better!” ---
**Author:** ![jadielyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jadielyn/32/8808_2.png) [@jadielyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jadielyn)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2021, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-disney-series-open-spoilers-after-first-post/948478/145 "2021-08-28T21:38:12Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Ya know, if you’ve got Captain Marvel, do you really need any more Avengers? As long as you only have one localized catastrophe at a time and are comfortable with a single point of failure, as opposed to a robust backup system that can address multiple global threats simultaneously. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2021, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-disney-series-open-spoilers-after-first-post/948478/146 "2021-08-28T22:14:06Z")
> [@jadielyn](#): > > What she found was that a deceased agent, Janet Van Dyne, had accessed the file Or possibly Hank using Janet’s password - which is why Natasha picked up on it. ---
**Author:** ![Retzbu\_Tox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/retzbu_tox/32/11829_2.png) [@Retzbu\_Tox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Retzbu_Tox)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2021, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-disney-series-open-spoilers-after-first-post/948478/147 "2021-08-29T00:28:40Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > Who else would he recruit? Maybe Bill Foster/Goliath (Laurence Fishburne’s character in _Ant Man and the Wasp_) Saving the Earth from Loki might provide him enough motivation to work with SHIELD again. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2021, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-disney-series-open-spoilers-after-first-post/948478/148 "2021-08-29T00:37:35Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > Well, someone’s got to give her moral support… > > More seriously, Captain Marvel’s powers derive from an Infinity Stone, and the Asgardians actually know quite a bit about them. Loki or Odin might actually be able to counter or negate them. And Captain Marvel is canonically vulnerable to mind control. She broke free of her Kree conditioning, but Loki might be able to at least briefly enchant her, or at least confuse her with illusions. I’m assuming that, based on the events of the first Thor film, Odin has taken his “Odinsleep” nap and has probably been murdered by Frost Giants by now. One question I have. How would the typical Asguardian soldier fare in battle against Earth? In the films, they seemed like they could be killed by spears and knives, just like humans. The M-16s Skurge picked up seemed pretty effective against Hela’s undead Asguardian warriors. Granted it doesn’t have the range of a sword. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2021, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-disney-series-open-spoilers-after-first-post/948478/149 "2021-08-29T00:44:02Z")
Thor was killed by an arrow - so I am guessing not well in general. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2021, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-disney-series-open-spoilers-after-first-post/948478/150 "2021-08-29T01:06:38Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > One question I have. How would the typical Asguardian soldier fare in battle against Earth? In the films, they seemed like they could be killed by spears and knives, just like humans. The M-16s Skurge picked up seemed pretty effective against Hela’s undead Asguardian warriors. Granted it doesn’t have the range of a sword. In the comics, even average Asgardians have superhuman strength and resilience. They’re generally not quite bulletproof, but maybe bullet resistant. In the MCU, they seem a bit ambiguous about that, although as @simster points out, Thor was killed by an arrow. Of course, that was one of Hawkeye’s arrows, so for all we know it had a vibranium or adamantium arrowhead or something. _Asgardian_ spears and knives are effective against Asgardians, but those are quasi-magical ultratech space Viking spears and knives, so, who knows. They also have quasi-magical ultratech space Viking armor, and Asgard conquered much of their known universe when Odin and Hela were young. And we know from _Thor_ that when SHIELD went up against the Destroyer armor, they were “hopelessly, hilariously outgunned.” I think based on what we’ve seen in the movies, plus “extended universe” material like _Agents of SHIELD_, that Asgardian body armor is probably effectively impervious to small arms fire, and that Asgardian hand weapons would cut through tank armor like tinfoil. Their space Viking quasi-magical ultratcech skyboats are probably effectively impervious to conventional anti-aircraft and air-to-air weapons systems, while their beam weapons would probably obliterate any conventional Earth aircraft or even armored vehicles. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2021, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-disney-series-open-spoilers-after-first-post/948478/151 "2021-08-29T04:52:30Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > Anyone else? SHIELD having the Ant-Man tech and needing someone to use it would be a good chance to bring in [Eric O’Grady](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_O%27Grady), who in the comics was a low-level SHIELD agent who stole the suit and used it to do crimes. Also, while Thor is dead, Mjolnir is still lying around New Mexico, waiting for someone worthy to wander by. Maybe [Eric Masterson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderstrike_(Eric_Masterson)), although that might be too many Erics on one team. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2021, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-disney-series-open-spoilers-after-first-post/948478/152 "2021-08-29T09:45:24Z")
Was Thor depowered when he was struck by the arrow? And either way, wouldn’t Odin be super pissed and come to earth or something? ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2021, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-disney-series-open-spoilers-after-first-post/948478/153 "2021-08-29T10:03:02Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Was Thor depowered when he was struck by the arrow? He was already depowered. In the original movie, Mjolnir was hidden from him by Odin. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2021, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-disney-series-open-spoilers-after-first-post/948478/154 "2021-08-29T10:17:54Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > He was already depowered. In the original movie, Mjolnir was hidden from him by Odin. And being depowered made him the physical equivalent of a human, not of a non-royal Asgardian. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2021, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-disney-series-open-spoilers-after-first-post/948478/155 "2021-08-29T15:43:13Z")
Well, a peak human like Steve Rogers at a minimum. He did take out at least a dozen SHIELD agents, even after they knew he was there. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2021, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-disney-series-open-spoilers-after-first-post/948478/156 "2021-08-29T17:21:43Z")
I think that in the MCU, Steve is a bit beyond even “peak human”. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2021, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-disney-series-open-spoilers-after-first-post/948478/157 "2021-08-29T17:28:50Z")
That’s an understatement. He _outruns_ a _car_ in his first action, and later _holds down a helicopter with his bare hands_. But even depowered, Thor is a big, strong guy, with centuries of combat experience. And unnamed SHIELD agents are mooks. Unless they have a name, they exist purely to be [Worfed](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWorfEffect). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2021, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-disney-series-open-spoilers-after-first-post/948478/158 "2021-08-29T20:56:06Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I think that in the MCU, Steve is a bit beyond even “peak human”. It’s “peak action movie human,” not “peak real world human.” Action movie humans can be knocked unconscious by blows to the head with no ill-effects, or get shot in the torso and shake it off as just a flesh wound, or dangle from narrow ledges by their finger tips for upwards of ten minutes. For example, John McClane is a normal NYPD cop who can run across broken glass barefoot and not permanently cripple himself. That’s not a super power, that’s just a moderately tough guy, in an action movie. Steve Rogers is the peak version of that. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2021, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-disney-series-open-spoilers-after-first-post/948478/159 "2021-08-29T21:15:09Z")
To quote myself, > [@gdave](#): > > He _outruns_ a _car_ in his first action, and later _holds down a helicopter with his bare hands_ . The MCU version of Captain America draws on both the mainstream comics version and the Ultimate-verse comics version, who had straight-up superhuman strength. The MCU version of Cap is clearly superhuman, not just peak-action-movie-human. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2021, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-disney-series-open-spoilers-after-first-post/948478/160 "2021-08-29T22:45:49Z")
During the scene in Avengers when [Loki arrives on earth](https://youtu.be/pQKYN-yR2oM?t=61) SHIELD agents pepper him with bullets which harmlessly bounce of his “fine Asguardian leather”. His outfit does not even appear to be any sort of armor, and it still renders him basically bulletproof. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-disney-series-open-spoilers-after-first-post/948478.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-disney-series-open-spoilers-after-first-post/948478.md?page=9)