# What if Edward VIII had never met Wallis Simpson? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 11, 2012, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-edward-viii-had-never-met-wallis-simpson/643669 "2012-12-11T02:34:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-edward-viii-had-never-met-wallis-simpson/643669/41 "2012-12-13T05:16:39Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Well, one rather prominent Windsor is the curent monarch, Queen Elizzbeth II. She is, by all accounts, a very sharp cookie. It’s just something I remember from the news when Charles announced his engagement to Diana, somebody who knew them or knew something about them remarked honestly, “She’s no mental giant, but, then, neither is he.” Though I have heard that Charles does fancy himself something of an intellectual in his own eccentric way, which might make things a bit interesting when he’s King. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-edward-viii-had-never-met-wallis-simpson/643669/42 "2012-12-13T09:19:00Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > What **Slithy Tove** remarks is true. I remember reading of one man in the Victorian age who was shunned by Queen Victoria after he sued his unfaithful wife for divorce - even though he had been the one wronged, he was isolated, because he made it public. In Parades End (the series) the main character states that only a blackguard would take his wife through the divorce courts. That illustrated a major problem at the time, divorce meant airing every intimate detail about the private life of a person in an open forum to an extent unimaginable today. In Victorian time the peferred solution for the upper and middle classes was separate lives and separation. They were not unaware of the fact of marital breakdown, they just found divorce to be an unsatisfactory solution. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-edward-viii-had-never-met-wallis-simpson/643669/43 "2012-12-13T10:34:36Z")
Can one of the Englanders present explain what a “2:2” is, please? ---
**Author:** ![Cumbrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@Cumbrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumbrian)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-edward-viii-had-never-met-wallis-simpson/643669/44 "2012-12-13T11:06:43Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Can one of the Englanders present explain what a “2:2” is, please? It is a lower second class honours degree. Typically, in the UK, undergrad degrees are awarded: 1st 2:1 (an upper second class degree) 2:2 (a lower second class degree) 3rd Pass Fail Those who get a third or a pass have either done no work at all, shouldn’t have been on the course to begin with, are not very bright, maybe got sick during the exam season (Oxford and Cambridge in particular do not go in for much continuous assessment - your degree is governed by your results in your final exams) or a combination of the above. A 2:2 is generally not thought of as a good quality degree, even though it is still 2nd class. Employers generally are looking for 2:1s or 1sts. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-edward-viii-had-never-met-wallis-simpson/643669/45 "2012-12-13T11:38:29Z")
The Duke and Duchess of Windsor did cause considerable trouble in 1940. They were in France and he was in uniform, as a major general as a liaison officer to the French. They had toned down their Nazi sympathies but still circulated in anti-semitic circles. In Nice when Paris fell, they called England and asked for a destroyer to bring them home. An astonished Henry Mack, first secretary to Ambassador Sir Henry Campbell, told them there was only a collier in Bordeaux and suggested they drive to Spain. While in Madrid, the Duke decided to lean on Churchill, saying he wanted to go home and be given an official position. King George VI told Churchill to keep him out of England at all costs and Churchill also told the duke that as a military officer there were grave consequences in refusing orders. While in Lisbon, the duchess reportedly said she and her husband could live with a German victory. The King’s private secretary suggested an army staff job in Cairo, Churchill vetoed that. The King suggested governor and commander in chief of the Bahamas, pretty low in the pecking order, and Churchill agreed. The Duke and Duchess were told to stay out of America, their two servants would have to go in the military and to keep their mouths shut. Which the duke promptly ignored, giving an interview to the American magazine “Liberty”, saying that isolationists should leave no stone unturned to keep America out of the war that Churchill was trying to bring them in. William Manchester & Paul Reid “The Last Lion-Defender of the Realm” I suppose the “what if” question would be when Chamberlain resigned in 1940, could have King Edward VIII have persuaded the appeaser Lord Halifax to become Prime Minister. But Halifax was already preferred by George VI, Chamberlain, most of the conservatives and labour party members. Halifax preferred Churchill, saying as a lord he couldn’t serve in the house of commons, although he may have recognized that whatever his flaws, Churchill was a fighter and that what was needed. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-edward-viii-had-never-met-wallis-simpson/643669/46 "2012-12-13T12:33:08Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > After abdicating Wallis was denied an HRH by the Brits. This infuriated Edward. Normally a wife takes her husband’s rank. Edward demand that people curtsey to his wife when meeting her and treat her royalty. People debated what to do about the situation. Staff obeyed his wishes and curtseyed to her. Some people did and some did not. So the British government had a say in who could call themselves royal and who could not. Royal titles are in the gift of the monarch, not the Government, although no doubt George VI would have followed the advice of his Prime Minister in this. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-edward-viii-had-never-met-wallis-simpson/643669/47 "2012-12-13T12:35:14Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > That’s like saying I dunno a major Romney donor being supportive of Obama in a face to face meeting. Its not credible that it will happen. Churchill was the most prominent politician to support Edward VIII. He is supposed to have written or at least improved upon the Abdication address. For anyone with a knowledge of history, that scene was jarring. For a Canadian equivalent, it would be like a movie about the October crises having Jean Chretien counsel Trudeau against using the War Powers Act. Nonsense, Churchill was an aristocrat of the old school, there’s no way he _wouldn’t_ be supportive to the incumbent monarch. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-edward-viii-had-never-met-wallis-simpson/643669/48 "2012-12-13T12:41:10Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > Nonsense, Churchill was an aristocrat of the old school, there’s no way he _wouldn’t_ be supportive to the incumbent monarch. Churchill was a consummate politician. Plus there are his actual actions during the abdication crises. ---
**Author:** ![wedgehed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8edcca/32.png) [@wedgehed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wedgehed)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-edward-viii-had-never-met-wallis-simpson/643669/49 "2012-12-13T13:02:41Z")
[quote=“BrainGlutton, post:18, topic:643669”] [Oh, that would have been awesome . . .](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_III_(1995_film)) [/QUOTE But more like this.]([- YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=kcSMaNlcDPs#t=38s)) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-edward-viii-had-never-met-wallis-simpson/643669.md?page=2)