# What if everybody lied? If nobody lied? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 13, 2013, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-everybody-lied-if-nobody-lied/668772 "2013-09-13T15:40:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Postmillennial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/91b2a8/32.png) [@Postmillennial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Postmillennial)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-everybody-lied-if-nobody-lied/668772/1 "2013-09-13T15:40:52Z")
I should rephrase: What if truth weren’t central to society? Word could never be counted upon, so would human communication be worthless? How would this sans truth dystopia differ from our society? On the other hand, what if nobody lied? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-everybody-lied-if-nobody-lied/668772/2 "2013-09-13T15:48:10Z")
What planet do you live on? Since when has truth been central to … anything? ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-everybody-lied-if-nobody-lied/668772/3 "2013-09-13T15:59:32Z")
If the truth were completely independent of what somebody uttered, language would essentially not exist. Without efficient sharing of information, we’re no better off than chimpanzees. So, no civilization. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-everybody-lied-if-nobody-lied/668772/4 "2013-09-14T19:52:20Z")
If nobody lied, I don’t think it would be pushed nearly to the amusing extreme of the film _The Invention of Lying,_ in which everyone just said whatever was on their mind. But if truth were completely independent of conversation, and you couldn’t believe _anything_ anybody said… what would be the point of speaking? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-everybody-lied-if-nobody-lied/668772/5 "2013-09-14T19:55:01Z")
1. Nobody would believe anybody. 2. Everybody would believe everybody. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-everybody-lied-if-nobody-lied/668772/6 "2013-09-14T21:09:37Z")
Everything I say is a lie. I am lying right now. OK, seriously. Everybody lies - We would all just believe the opposite of what somebody said. No-one lies - We would believe everybody at face value. So actually, either way life would be a little bit simpler. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-everybody-lied-if-nobody-lied/668772/7 "2013-09-14T21:19:44Z")
As for “what if nobody lied?”, there was a movie about this. [The Invention of Lying](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1058017/?ref_=sr_4). I enjoyed it. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-everybody-lied-if-nobody-lied/668772/8 "2013-09-14T21:55:55Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > Everybody lies - We would all just believe the opposite of what somebody said. That wouldn’t get us very far, though. If a man who never tells the truth said “I’m a doctor” then we would know he wasn’t actually a doctor, but wouldn’t know what his profession is. And how about a more complex statement, like “I’m a doctor from Boston”? There are three different ways that statement could be false: he’s a doctor but not from Boston, he’s from Boston but not a doctor, or he’s neither a doctor nor from Boston. If we could question him we could pin this down (“So you’re from Boston?”), but actually establishing what the truth is could take a long time. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-everybody-lied-if-nobody-lied/668772/9 "2013-09-14T22:05:35Z")
If nobody lied I would have to remain mute if my wife asked me anything about her hair. Or maybe she would learn not to ask. Although most people don’t lie all the time, I assume that everybody might be lying. What really bugs me are people who believe their falsehoods. E.g. most conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-everybody-lied-if-nobody-lied/668772/10 "2013-09-14T22:27:05Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > As for “what if nobody lied?”, there was a movie about this. [The Invention of Lying](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1058017/?ref_=sr_4). I enjoyed it. One of my favorite movies. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-everybody-lied-if-nobody-lied/668772/11 "2013-09-14T22:43:16Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > That wouldn’t get us very far, though. If a man who never tells the truth said “I’m a doctor” then we would know he wasn’t actually a doctor, but wouldn’t know what his profession is. And how about a more complex statement, like “I’m a doctor from Boston”? There are three different ways that statement could be false: he’s a doctor but not from Boston, he’s from Boston but not a doctor, or he’s neither a doctor nor from Boston. If we could question him we could pin this down (“So you’re from Boston?”), but actually establishing what the truth is could take a long time. If everybody always lied, then he would neither be a doctor, nor from Boston. But you do make a good point. What is he actually then? So, you’re a doctor? Yes OK, not a doctor. Do you have anything to do with medicine? Yes. OK, nothing to do with medicine. Do you flip burgers? No. Ah, a burger flipper. I am not hungry. I do not want you to make a cheeseburger. Maybe it would be more complicated than I first thought. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-everybody-lied-if-nobody-lied/668772/12 "2013-09-14T22:55:22Z")
If nobody lied, the birth rate would plummet. Yes, I’m being cynical. Does any woman really want an honest answer to “Does this make me look fat?” Forget Judge Judy - the fun would ne over in Divorce Court. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-everybody-lied-if-nobody-lied/668772/13 "2013-09-14T23:46:36Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > If nobody lied, the birth rate would plummet. > > Yes, I’m being cynical. > > Does any woman really want an honest answer to “Does this make me look fat?” > > Forget Judge Judy - the fun would ne over in Divorce Court. Do women still ask that? I’ve thought for long time now it was just a TV/movie trope. Does this make me look fat? No. It’s your cellulite that makes you look fat. ---
**Author:** ![D18](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@D18](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D18)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-everybody-lied-if-nobody-lied/668772/14 "2013-09-15T03:20:29Z")
Everybody lies. But it’s OK, because nobody listens. Great line. I forget who said it. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-everybody-lied-if-nobody-lied/668772/15 "2013-09-15T05:19:07Z")
If nobody lied, there would be no fiction. And not much in the way of tact. ---
**Author:** ![Arrogance\_Ex\_Machina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrogance_ex_machina/32/192_2.png) [@Arrogance\_Ex\_Machina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arrogance_Ex_Machina)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-everybody-lied-if-nobody-lied/668772/16 "2013-09-15T08:43:53Z")
You could do a lot with half-truths, switching subjects, being silent and other conversational tricks and still be tactful even if you wouldn’t be able to actually lie. Could be interesting. Everything being a lie would turn communication into meaning noise, which wouldn’t be interesting at all. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-everybody-lied-if-nobody-lied/668772/17 "2013-09-15T12:07:22Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > If nobody lied, there would be no fiction. Not really the same thing. I’m only telling a lie if what I say is untrue, I know this to be the case, \*and \*I expect you to believe in it. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-everybody-lied-if-nobody-lied/668772/18 "2013-09-15T20:16:49Z")
I wonder if the inability to lie would cover all types, like lies of omission and truthful but misleading statements, or if it would only be the ability to not tell a bald-face/barefaced lie.