# What if French voters reject the EU? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 4, 2005, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-french-voters-reject-the-eu/302415 "2005-05-04T18:21:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2005, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-french-voters-reject-the-eu/302415/1 "2005-05-04T18:21:34Z")
This past weekend saw, for the first time since the beginning of March, a poll that had a (slight) majority of French voters for the EU treaty (there are 25% still in the undecided camp.) If the French voters reject the EU in the May 29 vote are French politicians required to go along with the vote, or can they override their constituents wishes and sign the treaty regardless? In short: What happens if France rejects the EU? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2005, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-french-voters-reject-the-eu/302415/2 "2005-05-04T18:22:42Z")
Forgot [the cite](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4511043.stm#pollchart). ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2005, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-french-voters-reject-the-eu/302415/3 "2005-05-04T19:40:47Z")
Chirac’s selling points: [quote] [ol][li]The constitution would enshrine French values[_]The constitution would be what EU states made of it, but could only boost French power[_]The treaty was “essentially of French inspiration” - it was “the best possible” choice for FranceIt would only increase French and German influence in Europe[/ol]The constitution has to be ratified by all EU member states, but many of them are not holding referendums. The treaty is aimed at streamlining decision-making in the enlarged EU of 25 nations[/li][/QUOTE] Kinda makes one wonder, in those other EU nations that will be holding a referendum, what effect will those frano-centric views have on the non-French voters. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-french-voters-reject-the-eu/302415/4 "2005-05-04T20:04:48Z")
I’m surprised how he expects Frenchmen to forget the fact that Germany was _occupying_ them just 60+ years ago, much less have them believe that any treaty which increases German power is good for France. ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2005, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-french-voters-reject-the-eu/302415/5 "2005-05-04T20:38:42Z")
Well, I guess it’s because now the English annoy them a lot more. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2005, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-french-voters-reject-the-eu/302415/6 "2005-05-04T21:16:32Z")
Well, I guess invading a country in order to save her _also_ makes a bad impression towards the invaded. What can you do? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2005, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-french-voters-reject-the-eu/302415/7 "2005-05-04T21:29:06Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I’m surprised how he expects Frenchmen to forget the fact that Germany was _occupying_ them just 60+ years ago, much less have them believe that any treaty which increases German power is good for France. Perhaps there’s internal polling data showing the EU Constitutional measure is least popular in Southern France. If that’s the case, any mention of German power could bring the polling numbers up is the Régime de Vichy. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-french-voters-reject-the-eu/302415/8 "2005-05-05T09:26:25Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > This past weekend saw, for the first time since the beginning of March, a poll that had a (slight) majority of French voters for the EU treaty (there are 25% still in the undecided camp.) If the French voters reject the EU in the May 29 vote are French politicians required to go along with the vote, or can they override their constituents wishes and sign the treaty regardless? Technically, the legislature could still ratify the treaty. The french constitution has already been amended (by the legislature) to allow for the ratification. So, what we’re voting about is the ratification law. And there’s constitutionnally no difference between a law voted by the parliament and a law adopted by referendum. So, a new ratification law could be passed one week after a negative referendum and would overule its result, since it would be more recent. However, it’s of course politically impossible, at least in the short term. > [@](#): > > In short: What happens if France rejects the EU? The treaty must be ratified by _all_ members. If France (or the UK, or Malta…) doesn’t ratify it, it won’t apply, and the former treaties will stay in force. However, there’s an article, buried somewhere in the treaty, stating that if all but a given number of countries (five, I think) ratify it, the issue will be refered to the EU commision. However, I’m not sure what the commission could do. Probably nothing apart from making proposals to solve the issue. And I don’t even know exactly the wording of the article (I was unaware of it, and heard it existed only yesterday while watching a debate on TV), and I’m not going to search for this couple lines in the _191 pages long_ document ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-french-voters-reject-the-eu/302415/9 "2005-05-05T09:32:59Z")
> [@JohnBckWLD](#): > > Chirac’s selling points:Kinda makes one wonder, in those other EU nations that will be holding a referendum, what effect will those frano-centric views have on the non-French voters. I assume that they will point out how strong has been the british (or whatever else country) influence in the wording of the treaty. What Chirac said is just rhetorics, to convince voters that they aren’t going to be ruled according to “unfrench” principles. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-french-voters-reject-the-eu/302415/10 "2005-05-05T10:07:38Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I’m surprised how he expects Frenchmen to forget the fact that Germany was _occupying_ them just 60+ years ago, much less have them believe that any treaty which increases German power is good for France. There’s no significant resentment against Germany, in France. And anyway, most of us weren’t born 60 years ago. The germans are our pals. Now, the british…that’s another story… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-french-voters-reject-the-eu/302415/11 "2005-05-07T02:52:20Z")
Well, haven’t French supporters of the E.U. been saying for years that the Europe of their dreams would be “a German horse with a French rider”? That is, Germany’s powerful economy would be the backbone of the new Europe, but French bureaucrats would be running everything. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-french-voters-reject-the-eu/302415/12 "2005-05-07T11:28:14Z")
Maybe someone said so, but it’s the first time I read this sentence… ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-french-voters-reject-the-eu/302415/13 "2005-05-07T11:48:28Z")
If French voters reject the EU… … it’ll save the British voters from the trouble of having to reject it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-french-voters-reject-the-eu/302415/14 "2005-05-26T22:30:46Z")
Latest poll has 54% French voters rejecting the EU, polls open Sunday. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-french-voters-reject-the-eu/302415/15 "2005-05-26T22:35:42Z")
PU to the EU? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-french-voters-reject-the-eu/302415/16 "2005-05-26T22:44:36Z")
Nobody’s pointed out that a No vote in France isn’t a “no to the EU” vote, just a vote against the constitution. If the constitution isn’t ratified, the EU will carry on as before.