# What if God was one of us? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [August 31, 1999, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-god-was-one-of-us/182 "1999-08-31T05:20:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 1999, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-god-was-one-of-us/182/21 "1999-09-01T01:59:00Z")
We’ve had several Christians post on this topic, and each one of them has a slightly different view of what Jesus was. I don’t think that there really is any meaningful explanation of Christianity; one of the reasons it’s survived so well is that it’s so vaguely worded that anytime an objection against a particular interpretation is made, apologists insist that the critic is arguing against a misinterpretation of doctrine; he just “doesn’t understand what Christianity really is”. John W. Kennedy Member posted 08-31-1999 11:04 AM > [@](#): > > C. Jesus and God the Son are the same person. (A very tiny minority object to this.) > D. Jesus and God the Son are not the same being. (A somewhat less tiny minority object to this.) ``` Perhaps, to you, there is a clear difference between “person” and “being”, but there isn’t for most people. And even those that do recognize a difference don’t necessarily recognize the same difference as you do. I guess what I’m saying is that even if someone believes in each of your points *as they interpret them*, they don’t necessarily have the same beliefs as you. And isn’t it kind of strange to be in a religion in which you can’t be sure that it means the same thing to other people of the same religion? ``` Paddy the Irish Mexican Member posted 08-31-1999 12:31 PM In response to Ahunter3: > [@](#): > > You may disagree, but if you want to take advantage of topics like this to bash Christians ``` I didn’t see anything “bashing” Christianity, except for the quite reasonable point that many people who claim to believe in Christianity, a religion that teaches that Jesus was one of us, still don’t really believe that Jesus was one of us. You might not agree with some of the theology presented, but interpreting theology contrary to that which you believe as “bashing” is hardly a good method for convincing people that “most Christians are more fair-minded than their critics say they are.” ``` moriah Member posted 08-31-1999 02:49 PM > [@](#): > > Sin is not a necessary aspect of the human nature, and so, there can be a truly human person without sin. So, except for the sin part, Jesus is like any of us in humanity. ``` Are you a Christian? If so, I can’t understand how you can believe that. According to every version of Christianity I’ve heard, it is impossible to be free from sin without Jesus’ help. No one can simply choose to avoid sin; they need Jesus to save them from it. Certainly sounds like sin in an inherent part of humanity to me. And if every normal human needs the help of a higher power to be "saved", but Jesus doesn't, isn't that a pretty significant difference? ``` * * * -Ryan " ‘Ideas on Earth were badges of friendship or enmity. Their content did not matter.’ " -Kurt Vonnegut, \* Breakfast of Champions \* ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 1999, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-god-was-one-of-us/182/22 "1999-09-01T04:35:00Z")
Brother Haus posted: > [@](#): > > Brother Haus wondering: John, are you refering to the Holy Trinity? And if you are, where in the Bible does it mention the Holy Trinity? If you mean the phrase ‘Holy Trinity’ or even the word ‘Trinity’ or the full understanding of the Trinity that was expressed in any of the ecumenical councils, then you won’t find the Trinity in the Bible at all. However, we do have in Matthew 28:19, > [@](#): > > Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost And please don’t make me pull up all the quotes from the Gospel of John where Jesus equates himself with the Father and the Spirit with himself. 🙂 {“The Word was God…the Word became flesh”) Also keep in mind that orthodox Christianity is more than just the Scriptures. Even Lutheran theologians will agree with that. Peace. ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 1999, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-god-was-one-of-us/182/23 "1999-09-01T04:49:00Z")
moriah posted: > [@](#): > > Sin is not a necessary aspect of the human nature, and so, there can be a truly human person without sin. So, except for the sin part, Jesus is like any of us in humanity. (The) Ryan responded: > [@](#): > > Are you a Christian? If so, I can’t understand how you can believe that. According to every version of Christianity I’ve heard, it is impossible to be free from sin without Jesus’ help. No one can simply choose to avoid sin; they need Jesus to save them from it. Certainly sounds like sin in an inherent part of humanity to me. And if every normal human needs the help of a higher power to be “saved”, but Jesus doesn’t, isn’t that a pretty significant difference? Well, this may be circular logic, but orthodox Christian belief is that Jesus was fully human, and that Jesus was without sin. So, in Jesus, we have an example of sinless human. So yes, someone can be human and sinless – Jesus. Also considere that before Adam and Eve sinned, they were sinless humans. Again, a biblical ‘proof’ (as historically non-critical as it may be) that there can be a sinless human. The distinction for the rest of humanity is a theoretical one. Our human nature is weakened by ‘original sin’ (not an actual sin, though); and, according to Paul, “we all sin” (eventually – babies certainly don’t). And yes, we all rely on God to save us since we can’t save ourselves (not even pre-Fall Adam or innocent babies). So even the theoretical sinless human would need saving, even if there was no sin. Jesus, having the advantage of being God and human, was the exception who could save his own humanity (but not from sin, though, since he had none – but it still needed to be saved from permanent death), and thus, all other (worthy and/or repentant) humans. Peace. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 1999, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-god-was-one-of-us/182/24 "1999-09-01T04:53:00Z")
> [@](#): > > I HATE that song! At last, something I agree with Adam on. * * * Never regret what seemed like a good idea at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Brother\_Haus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Brother\_Haus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brother_Haus)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 1999, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-god-was-one-of-us/182/25 "1999-09-01T07:23:00Z")
moriah writes: > [@](#): > > ## If you mean the phrase ‘Holy Trinity’ or even the word ‘Trinity’ or the full understanding of the Trinity that was expressed in any of the ecumenical councils, then you won’t find the Trinity in the Bible at all. However, we do have in Matthew 28:19, quote: > > ## Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost What I get out of this quote from the Bible is Jesus telling people what to say when they baptize someone. Not that, he is the father, the son, and the holy ghost. And wasn’t it the Bible that quote’s Jesus as saying, “Father, why has thou forsaken me?”. It seems here he is clearly making a difference between himself and his father. moriah also writes: > [@](#): > > And yes, we all rely on God to save us since we can’t save ourselves Well I don’t need saving, so I don’t need any gods’ to save me either.=Brother Haus says politely= * * * I am not **weird** , I’m just _normle_ challenged. ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 1999, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-god-was-one-of-us/182/26 "1999-09-01T09:31:00Z")
For some reason my computer is not allowing me to copy and paste, much less to use my all-powerful moderator tools. Some posters here have expressed concern that this thread not get “dumped” in General Questions, Great Debates, or the Mundane forum. This topic referred to was in “Classic Threads,” _not_ a Straight Dope column, so this is not the appropriate forum for it. I have asked Tubadiva to lock and/or move it. Jill ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 1999, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-god-was-one-of-us/182/27 "1999-09-01T18:41:00Z")
Next stop on this traveling show: Great Debates. your humble TubaDiva/SDStaffDiv for the Straight Dope ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2001, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-god-was-one-of-us/182/28 "2001-06-16T21:12:24Z")
This was of my favorite theological threads and must not end up on the pruning-room floor ::bump:: ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-god-was-one-of-us/182/29 "2001-06-19T22:10:35Z")
At the risk of bumping this yet again… was this not closed and transfered to Great Debates? Is it not, then, languishing in the files of GD (where it belongs)? Do we have to leave it here? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2001, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-god-was-one-of-us/182/30 "2001-06-20T05:33:13Z")
I think we can safely close this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-god-was-one-of-us/182.md?page=1)