# What if Gollum survived the destruction of the ring **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 1, 2016, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453 "2016-08-01T09:07:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uosdwis_R.Dewoh)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453/1 "2016-08-01T09:07:07Z")
What would have happened to him? So in this alternative scenario Gollum doesn’t fall with the ring into Mount Doom. Frodo and Sam drag him out of the mountain with them. Would Gandalf agree to save him, too? Would the eagles? If Gandalf did save him, how would Aragon and the realms of men treat him? Would there be any sympathy for him? He is the ring’s greatest victim, after all. Some of the most powerful beings of middle earth dared not be under the influence of the ring for even a moment. Gollum had the ring for centuries. Boromir was cast under the ring’s power and he was still spoken highly of after his death. Would Gollum be given the same courtesy? Would he still be addicted to the ring? Both Frodo and Bilbo apparently still missed the ring after its destruction. He’d probably start to age rapidly as Bilbo. Would he be allowed into the Undying Lands? He’s technically a ringbearer as well. ---
**Author:** ![TYphoonSignal8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@TYphoonSignal8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TYphoonSignal8)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453/2 "2016-08-01T09:55:03Z")
I assume the Elves would be kind enough to institutionalise him in the hope that one day his sanity would recover. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453/3 "2016-08-01T10:33:00Z")
> [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](#): > > Would he be allowed into the Undying Lands? He’s technically a ringbearer as well. Before he was a Ringbearer he was a murderer, so no, probably not. And did Bilbo and Frodo and Samwise get to go to Valinor itself or just Tol Eressea? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453/4 "2016-08-01T10:49:33Z")
He couldn’t have survived the loss of the ring. If he had somehow not died at the same moment, he’d be dead of grief within a day. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453/5 "2016-08-01T11:28:47Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > He couldn’t have survived the loss of the ring. If he had somehow not died at the same moment, he’d be dead of grief within a day. Yep - look at how much Bilbo aged between the party and Rivendell, and Gollum/Smeagol had already lived an ‘un-naturally long life’ - without the ring (and the search for it) to sustain him - he would be gone in short order. As far as the Murder charge - while true - that was from the influence of the ring as well. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453/6 "2016-08-01T11:31:38Z")
What **Chronos** said. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453/7 "2016-08-01T11:43:54Z")
I asked a similar question twelve years ago. We’re an interesting bunch. [Gollum and the Undying Lands: Perfect Together?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=244055&highlight=gollum+undying) ---
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453/8 "2016-08-01T14:04:44Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Before he was a Ringbearer he was a murderer… Surely he would have hit the statue of limitations by then. ---
**Author:** ![Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uosdwis_R.Dewoh)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453/9 "2016-08-01T19:13:16Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > I asked a similar question twelve years ago. We’re an interesting bunch. > > [Gollum and the Undying Lands: Perfect Together?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=244055&highlight=gollum+undying) Thanks. Certainly some good speculation in that thread. > [@Hermitian](#): > > Surely he would have hit the statue of limitations by then. It’s been awhile since I read the books, but did Gollum kill any non-orcs in the books? IIRC, in the Hobbit, under the Misty Mountains, he killed and ate any orcs or goblins that got lost in the caves. I suppose some humans, dwarfs, or elves might occasionally become dinner over the centuries. Their deaths would be blamed on the goblins, however. Deagol’s murder would also be hard, if not impossible, to tie to Gollum. Kinda moot as the mechanism on how to get to the undying lands is vague. Maybe there’s a magical test of worthiness that decides if you get in. Maybe if you’re unworthy the ship, of otherwise worthy travellers, will vanish beneath your feet and carry on while you fall in the ocean. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453/10 "2016-08-01T19:18:07Z")
> [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](#): > > It’s been awhile since I read the books, but did Gollum kill any non-orcs in the books? It was implied he ate babies on occasion. Gandalf says this to Frodo in describing Gollum: > [@](#): > > The Woodmen said that there was some new terror abroad, a ghost that drank blood. It climbed trees to find nests, it crept into holes to find the young; it slipped through windows to find cradles. I agree that Gollum wouldn’t survive the loss of the ring for very long. If he didn’t crumble to dust, he would refuse to eat and die of starvation. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453/11 "2016-08-01T20:29:54Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Before he was a Ringbearer he was a murderer, Was someone going to arrest him, and then have him claim the ring’s influence? Will there be a ring around that collar? ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453/12 "2016-08-01T20:40:36Z")
> [@Hermitian](#): > > Surely he would have hit the statue of limitations by then. Would there be a statute of limitations on murder? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453/13 "2016-08-01T20:44:43Z")
Maybe it’s a statue of limitations like the Argonath. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453/14 "2016-08-01T20:48:38Z")
> [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](#): > > It’s been awhile since I read the books, but did Gollum kill any non-orcs in the books? His friend Deagol (another hobbit-like creature) originally found the Ring while fishing, and Smeagol killed him for it. But as noted, it was under the influence of the Ring and would probably be given a pass. And as **Chronos** and others noted, it’s a moot point anyway - he couldn’t have survived the Ring’s destruction. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453/15 "2016-08-01T20:55:37Z")
It would be interesting and helpful to know what, exactly, happened to Bilbo at that instant. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453/16 "2016-08-02T00:26:44Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > It would be interesting and helpful to know what, exactly, happened to Bilbo at that instant. Good point. This forum requires that you wait 60 seconds between posts. Please try again in 3 seconds. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453/17 "2016-08-02T01:01:38Z")
Bilbo probably felt it, and it was probably unpleasant, but we know it wasn’t immediately lethal for him, since he was still alive a few months later to board the westbound ship. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453/18 "2016-08-02T03:25:50Z")
I’ve always seen Gollum dying with the Ring as an act of mercy, precisely because of what Chronos and Colibri say. The one part where Eru Ilúvatar interfered wasn’t just to destroy the ring, but to destroy Gollum as well. The ability to die is considered a good thing in Middle Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453/19 "2016-08-02T16:00:23Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Maybe it’s a statue of limitations like the Argonath. oh well played ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453/20 "2016-08-02T20:45:54Z")
The Ring may have been a mitigating factor in the murder of Deagol, but that was still mostly on Smeagol. He was influenced by the Ring, but only by the sight of it, not even the touch, and that for only a few minutes. And with only that barest minimum amount of influence, he casually murders his best friend. Nobody else exposed to the Ring comes even close to that. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453.md?page=2)