# What if Gollum survived the destruction of the ring **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 1, 2016, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453 "2016-08-01T09:07:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453/21 "2016-08-02T21:11:22Z")
I think that’s more a reflection of his weak will, not that he harbored any murderous qualities before seeing the Ring. But I don’t know if that would make much difference to the elves anyway. They were merciful in some ways and hard-asses in others. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453/22 "2016-08-02T22:53:01Z")
It’s also a bit of commentary on the nature of Hobbits as such - sometimes soft and sometimes very tough. Even Gollum, as bad as he became, wasn’t consumed by the ring in the way a human probably would be. Most humans would probably end up as wraiths; Gollum not only retained corporeal, but even quite alive and with at least a touch of honor and decency left within him. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453/23 "2016-08-03T10:58:51Z")
Which gets back to what I was saying about that murder being mostly due to Smeagol’s own will. He killed Deagol because he wanted to, with the Ring just nudging him slightly over the edge (which he must already have been very close to). ---
**Author:** ![DeptfordX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DeptfordX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeptfordX)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453/24 "2016-08-03T22:33:03Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > It would be interesting and helpful to know what, exactly, happened to Bilbo at that instant. He’d put it aside by that point. Both at his party, and finally at Rivendell. I’m guessing it had no further power over him by that point. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453/25 "2016-08-04T01:46:54Z")
Well, he did ask after it, when Frodo came to visit him in Rivendell, when all was said and done. It was still on his mind to some minor degree. I view it like the classical model of alcohol addiction: you never are “cured” of it. You can never drink again safely. If Frodo had brought the Ring back, it would have latched right on to Bilbo’s soul again. But, as noted, Hobbitses are tough old rannies, and don’t succumb all the way to the Ring’s power. Even Gollum, even well toward the end, had some reserves of love and Hobbitry within him. Another what-if: what if Gollum had bitten the Ring off Frodo’s finger…and not fallen into the pit? Would he have turned the power of the Ring against Frodo? (“Now I am the master! Jump! Jump into the Fire! That is what I commands, yes!”) Or would he have, even after all he’d suffered, enough decency to avoid this? (“I could make you jump into the fire! But we walked all that way together. Go. Just go!”) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453/26 "2016-08-04T02:53:26Z")
I think Gandalf and the Elves probably would’ve been willing to try to help heal Gollum, in body and spirit, but I also suspect he was too far gone and either would’ve thrown himself into the fire after the Ring, in despair, or died of heartbreak/going “cold turkey” within hours or days. > [@Ludovic](#): > > Maybe it’s a statue of limitations like the Argonath. For this, you must be cast forthwith into the Chasm of Pretty Much Instant Death. > [@Chronos](#): > > Bilbo probably felt it, and it was probably unpleasant, but we know it wasn’t immediately lethal for him, since he was still alive a few months later to board the westbound ship. > [@Trinopus](#): > > Well, he did ask after [the One Ring], when Frodo came to visit him in Rivendell, when all was said and done. It was still on his mind to some minor degree… Agreed. He might’ve felt a twinge when the Ring was destroyed, but it apparently wasn’t bad enough for him to remember it and ask Frodo about it later. > [@Trinopus](#): > > …Another what-if: what if Gollum had bitten the Ring off Frodo’s finger…and not fallen into the pit? Would he have turned the power of the Ring against Frodo? (“Now I am the master! Jump! Jump into the Fire! That is what I commands, yes!”) Or would he have, even after all he’d suffered, enough decency to avoid this? (“I could make you jump into the fire! But we walked all that way together. Go. Just go!”) He might’ve tried, but I bet Frodo would be pissed-off enough that he’d’ve charged Gollum and they’d _both_ go into the lava. Tolkien also wrote in a letter that, had Frodo retained the Ring and not had it bitten off by Gollum, the Nazgul would quickly have arrived, pretended to honor Frodo and kept him away from the Cracks of Doom long enough for Sauron himself to arrive and take his long-lost treasure back - and there was _no way_ that Frodo could withstand the Dark Lord himself. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453/27 "2016-08-04T12:25:06Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Well, he did ask after it, when Frodo came to visit him in Rivendell, when all was said and done. It was still on his mind to some minor degree. I think it’s more than that - I think the destruction of the Ring accelerated Bilbo’s aging, both mentally and physically. At the Council of Elrond, he’s still in exceptional shape for a Hobbit of his age - in full control of his mental faculties, able to address the Council, etc. But less than a year later, when Frodo sees him on his way back to the Shire, he naps a lot, and has completely forgotten the whole point of the quest was to to get rid of the Ring, as you’d expect for a Hobbit creeping up on the Old Took. ---
**Author:** ![Bootis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@Bootis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootis)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453/28 "2016-08-07T17:11:31Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Yep - look at how much Bilbo aged between the party and Rivendell, and Gollum/Smeagol had already lived an ‘un-naturally long life’ - without the ring (and the search for it) to sustain him - he would be gone in short order. Side note, One of the things the movie doesn’t really convey is that 18 years pass between the party and the day that Frodo leaves the shire ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453/29 "2016-08-07T18:45:15Z")
The destruction of the ring meant the unmaking of all the works of the ring. Barad Dur collapses. The wraiths are destroyed. And the extension of life that the ring had granted to Bilbo and Smeagol would be revoked as well. This means Bilbo rapidly ages from “well preserved” into a doddering 133 year old hobbit. And Smeagol would soon crumble to dust. Whether that would take minutes or days would depend on the author, but it’s clear that his long-extended life would now be over. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453/30 "2016-08-07T22:59:41Z")
Gollum even says it himself: [QUOTE=Gollum] When precious goes we’ll die, yes, die into the dust." [/quote] OK, so he is trying to talk Sam out of killing him at the time, but it does seem likely true. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-gollum-survived-the-destruction-of-the-ring/761453.md?page=1)