# What if Hitler enlisted Japan's help against the USSR? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 22, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-hitler-enlisted-japans-help-against-the-ussr/482507 "2009-01-22T19:45:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-hitler-enlisted-japans-help-against-the-ussr/482507/21 "2009-01-23T00:44:19Z")
Interestingly, the last telegram that the Communications Room in the _Fuhrerbunker_ received before the Russians cut off communications was, apparently, from the Japanese Government, and basically said “Good luck; you’re going to need it.” ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-hitler-enlisted-japans-help-against-the-ussr/482507/22 "2009-01-23T01:02:09Z")
Was the code word for a Japanese attack upon Russia. While it was considered by the IJA staff, it made no sense: -Siberia had no oil -the distances were vast-beyongd the IJA’s supply capabilities -the Red Army had proven its superiority (over te Japanese) in 1939 Striking south made much more sense-the poorly defended Dutch East Indies had oil, rubber, and raw materials-which Japan needed. Attacking Russian Siberia made no sense at all. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-hitler-enlisted-japans-help-against-the-ussr/482507/23 "2009-01-23T01:17:04Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > I swear Axis and Allies was designed by a descendant of Tojo. All Japan has to do is attack the eastern USSR and half the board falls to it, almost without a shot fired. In my experience the Allies almost always win anyway. Playing the Allied side I can always come back. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-hitler-enlisted-japans-help-against-the-ussr/482507/24 "2009-01-23T03:45:46Z")
The Japanese also had no reason to attack the Soviet Union and every reason to NOT do it. Sure Siberia is full of resources but these were far away and even today depend on basically a single rail line. The Japanese needed oil from the Dutch East Indies and America and Britian didn’t want them to have it. Remember Britian is still the biggest navy and Japan’s navy is having difficulty keeping supplied. Furthermore Japan is stalmated in China. They took the easy parts, the major cities but the country side was not in their total control. CHINA is what Japan wanted, resources AND PEOPLE to exploit them. Having a bunch of resources in Siberia that depend on a single rail line to get them to a port is too hard to defend. Not to mention it still must be shipped to Japan. Japan’s stragedy was never to win the war. It was to overextend and grab whatever they could and then let Germany and the Allies knock each other out and the Japanese figured they’d have to give some back, but could keep most of it. That was the idea behind overextending. Germany and Japan completey underestimated the American manufacturing power. By the wars end America was building ships faster than they could be sunk. The total industrial production of the USA was more in 1945 than in the rest of the world combined. And the US didn’t even have a half million deaths and no destruction to it’s territory. Japan new the US was the person to exhaust and wasn’t about to help Hitler. Try [The Axis Forums - What If](http://forum.axishistory.com/) section for talk about this and other WWII what ifs ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-hitler-enlisted-japans-help-against-the-ussr/482507/25 "2009-01-23T17:46:47Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > I swear Axis and Allies was designed by a descendant of Tojo. All Japan has to do is attack the eastern USSR and half the board falls to it, almost without a shot fired. > > My WAG: the logistics of an assault on Siberia were just too difficult for the Japanese army to face. Keeping the supply lines up, even during the summer, would have been very tough. It also works in several other Wargames and simulations I have tried. Sure, the Japanese would not have fared well in Siberia. \*They wouldn’t have to. \*See, since the Japanese did not put military pressure on the USSR, Stalin was able to pull dozens of fresh divisions form that area, (importantly divisions that had pro veteran offciers that had not been purged) to save Stalingrad. No fresh divisions, Stalingrad falls, then Russia falls, thus WWII grinds to a stalemate. See- the Allies actually acted as allies. The USA saw that the war could be won if the Big Three shared long term Strategic goals. The USA pumped huge amounts of aid to Stalin, even though Stalin was hardly our buddy. Hitler and Tojo hardly worked together at all, there was no planning and just a little small scale assistance and aid. Basicly, they were two separate natiosn with separate goals, whcih was their undoing. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-hitler-enlisted-japans-help-against-the-ussr/482507/26 "2009-01-23T17:54:55Z")
It’s the difference between real life and a game. In a game you can sacrifice your Japanese troops in order to push forward your German forces because eventually it will allow you to win. You don’t care so much that your Japanese forces are going to get ground up because it’s the road to winning the game. In reality though what Germany was doing had very little impact on what the Japanese wanted to accomplish…and vice versa. Neither thought what the other was doing was important to their own goals…hell, that was part of the beauty of the alliance. Neither would stick their thumb into the others pie. The US was different. We sat in the middle of both enemies and knew that Germany was the bigger threat strategically. We were also powerful enough to send most of our efforts toward the fight against Germany while still building up for the long slog to Japan. Our strategic outlook was broader than either Germany or Japan because of the nature of our location. Of course, in Allies and Axis I generally play the US by attacking into Africa and opening up another front with Germany through the Middle East while doing an all out attack on Japan to get THEM out of the war early and rely on the Brits and Russians to soak up the majority of the fighting with Germany until I’m ready to finish the game. 😉 -XT [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-hitler-enlisted-japans-help-against-the-ussr/482507.md?page=1)