# What If I am Actually right? \[movements of poles\]
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [February 4, 2011, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125 "2011-02-04T06:08:01Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 10
### Author:  [@N8N8N8N](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N8N8N8N)
#### Post date: [February 12, 2011, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/181 "2011-02-12T00:52:13Z")
> [@iamnotbatman](#):
>
> Incomprehensible. But funny.
But your lack of comprehension does not equate my theory being wrong just speaks to your lack of understanding.
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### Author:  [@N8N8N8N](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N8N8N8N)
#### Post date: [February 12, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/182 "2011-02-12T01:09:42Z")
> [@Muffin](#):
>
> That explains it.
Yes its true I only have a grade 4 education. And thats a problem how Muffin? If the below text does not make sense to you watch the movie listed below.
The 1997 drama film Good Will Hunting follows the story of autodidact Will Hunting, played by Matt Damon. Hunting demonstrates his breadth and depth of knowledge throughout the film, but especially to his therapist and in a heated discussion in a Harvard bar.
**Notable autodidacts Artists and authors**
_Wikipedia text removed, see the article on Autodidacticism [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autodidacticism)._
Any questions?
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### Author:  [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)
#### Post date: [February 12, 2011, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/183 "2011-02-12T02:28:28Z")
> [@N8N8N8N](#):
>
> Any questions?
Yes. Where did you just borrow text from?
SDMB frowns upon non-credited quotes. Quoted text should be in a quote box, accompanied by a link to the source.
Please read the rules of the SDMB, [specifically #3 “What’s the policy on copyrights?”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=7696968#post7696968)
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### Author:  [@N8N8N8N](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N8N8N8N)
#### Post date: [February 12, 2011, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/184 "2011-02-12T03:53:42Z")
> [@SeaDragonTattoo](#):
>
> Yes. Where did you just borrow text from?
>
> SDMB frowns upon non-credited quotes. Quoted text should be in a quote box, accompanied by a link to the source.
> Please read the rules of the SDMB, [specifically #3 “What’s the policy on copyrights?”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=7696968#post7696968)
If they have a problem with it I’m sure they will let me know now why don’t you play copyright police somewhere else.
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### Author:  [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)
#### Post date: [February 12, 2011, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/185 "2011-02-12T04:28:19Z")
OK. Reported.
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### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [February 12, 2011, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/186 "2011-02-12T04:50:33Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#):
>
> **N8N8N8N** , what, as you understand it, is the definition of a desert? Please do not elaborate on the answer; just tell us what properties a region must have for you to consider it a desert.
> [@N8N8N8N](#):
>
> lack of precipitation. WHich has abolutely nothing to do why there was an ice cap in Spain and none in alaska the ocean did not freeze in the west.
>
> The Arctic Ocean between the huge ice sheets of America and Eurasia was not frozen throughout, but like today probably was only covered by relatively shallow ice, subject to seasonal changes and riddled with icebergs calving from the surrounding ice sheets. According to the sediment composition retrieved from deep-sea cores there must even have been times of seasonally open waters.[7]
>
> 7.^ Robert F. Spielhagen et al.: Arctic Ocean deep-sea record of northern Eurasian ice sheet history. Quaternary Science Reviews, Vol. 23, No. 11-13, pp. 1455–1483, 2004. Abstract: doi:10.1016/j.quascirev.2003.12.015
>
> The damn snowfall in Alaska does not matter its a non issue. Spain had 3 miles of ice on it alaska and the Arctic ocean had none. It does not matter how much snow is in your back yard. It was warmer in Alaska HOW because it was further South than it is today its just that simple.
Well, I did ask you not to elaborate, but let’s let it go for the moment.
To your understanding, what causes the buildup of an ice sheet during an ice age? Is it the accumulation over the years of winter snow that was not melted during the subsequent summer, or is it something else (and if it is sometthing else, what to your understanding is it)?
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### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [February 12, 2011, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/187 "2011-02-12T04:54:47Z")
> [@N8N8N8N](#):
>
> Spain was warmer and had a 3 mile ice cap… Why does that statement make no sense to me? Doe it not make more sense that Spain was at the north pole at the time and Alaska was further south? Surely you can see the logic in that.
> Put England at the north pole and Spain is covered in ice and Alaska is where Japan is now No ice in Alaska icecap in Spain. **Snowfall will determine the thickness of the icecap not the temperature.**
Waitaminute. You really said that? Cool.
If snowfall determines the thickness of an icecap, may we predict anything about the thickness of an icecap in a region that doesn’t get any snowfall?
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### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [February 12, 2011, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/188 "2011-02-12T05:05:09Z")
> [@N8N8N8N](#):
>
> Any questions?
Yeah, when you mentioned Lovecraft, it reminded me that I forgot to read the lovecraftismissing webcomic today, and I missed the rest of the list. Could you repeat it from there, please?
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### Author:  [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)
#### Post date: [February 12, 2011, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/189 "2011-02-12T05:24:15Z")
> [@SeaDragonTattoo](#):
>
> Yes. Where did you just borrow text from?
>
> SDMB frowns upon non-credited quotes. Quoted text should be in a quote box, accompanied by a link to the source.
> Please read the rules of the SDMB, [specifically #3 “What’s the policy on copyrights?”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=7696968#post7696968)
**Moderator note:**
So do we frown on junior modding, but still, we do appreciate your reporting this potential issue. No warning issued for junior modding.
As for the possible rule violations concerning copyright, I’ll look into it.
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### Author:  [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)
#### Post date: [February 12, 2011, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/190 "2011-02-12T05:48:35Z")
> [@SeaDragonTattoo](#):
>
> Yes. Where did you just borrow text from?
Apparently he or she got it from Wikipedia, lock stock and barrel.
**Moderator Warning** :
**N8N8N8N8** , we like to have our members, you know, actually _write_ their posts. Copying and pasting an entire Wikipedia article is not acceptable, and I have dispatched a formal warning in your direction.
Don’t do this again.
For the Straight Dope
**Spectre of Pithecanthropus**
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### Author:  [@N8N8N8N](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N8N8N8N)
#### Post date: [February 12, 2011, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/191 "2011-02-12T16:54:14Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#):
>
> Waitaminute. You really said that? Cool.
>
> If snowfall determines the thickness of an icecap, may we predict anything about the thickness of an icecap in a region that doesn’t get any snowfall?
A desert by defintion is an area that recieves less than 10" of snow per year. The Arctic basin is the mose arrid part of the Arctic and recieves 10" of snow per year. If you accumulate that over 30,000 years its 180,000" of snow or 34 miles at a ratio of 10:1 for ice to snow thats a 3.4 mile ice cap. There is no geological record of Ice in Alaska or SIberia and the western Actic was ice free. That told me that it was warmer there than in Europe which was under 3 miles of ice. How is that possible with the earth at its current location? You just cannot logically make that scenario work. But if you place Europe in the north pole it makes perfect sense.
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### Author:  [@N8N8N8N](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N8N8N8N)
#### Post date: [February 12, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/192 "2011-02-12T17:05:28Z")
Anybody know what junior modding is?
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### Author:  [@N8N8N8N](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N8N8N8N)
#### Post date: [February 12, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/193 "2011-02-12T17:25:11Z")
Dislcaimer: I did n’t write the stuff below its clear concsie no spelling, grammar or puntuation errors
unlike the verbal diarea diaareea diareea…Shit I write. For me to take this or anyother piece of work and rewrite it, that would be a copyright violation. to butcher some elses work like that.
[deleted cut and pasted material]
[http://www.wrcc.dri.edu/narratives/ALASKA.htm](http://www.wrcc.dri.edu/narratives/ALASKA.htm)
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### Author:  [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)
#### Post date: [February 12, 2011, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/194 "2011-02-12T21:38:36Z")
> [@N8N8N8N](#):
>
> A desert by defintion is an area that recieves less than 10" of snow per year. The Arctic basin is the mose arrid part of the Arctic and recieves 10" of snow per year. If you accumulate that over 30,000 years its 180,000" of snow or 34 miles at a ratio of 10:1 for ice to snow thats a 3.4 mile ice cap. There is no geological record of Ice in Alaska or SIberia and the western Actic was ice free. That told me that it was warmer there than in Europe which was under 3 miles of ice. How is that possible with the earth at its current location? You just cannot logically make that scenario work. But if you place Europe in the north pole it makes perfect sense.
The summer there only has to be warm enough to melt 10" of snow over there for there to be no accumulation year-to-year. That’s not that hard. Meanwhile, Buffalo gets 92" per year on average. If the summer in Buffalo was only warm enough to melt 82" of snow, you’d end up with 10" of snow accumulation every year. The glaciers occur where snowfall exceeds snow melt for the year.
Snowfall is driven largely by precipitation, snow melt is driven largely by temperature. If you don’t get much snow in the winter, it doesn’t need to warm up much in the summer to melt it all. If you get a whole lot of snow in the winter, you can have a much warmer summer and still accumulate snow year-to-year, and thus get glaciation. This isn’t that difficult. Even in the Arctic, snow melts in the summer. In order to get a glacier, you need enough precipitation to make up for it.
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### Author:  [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)
#### Post date: [February 12, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/195 "2011-02-12T22:00:36Z")
> [@N8N8N8N](#):
>
> Anybody know what junior modding is?
“Junior modding” is someone acting in the capacity of a moderator who is not a moderator. So **SeaDragonTattoo** was acting like a “junior moderator” by calling you on a perceived rules violation when s/he doesn’t have the authority to do so.
The correct procedure, if you spot something which you think goes against the rules of the board, is to report it by clicking the little triangle warning icon in the relevant post, which will send a note to the (real) moderators who will look into it.
And I assume I’m not junior modding myself by explaining all that.
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### Author:  [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2011, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/196 "2011-02-13T01:57:10Z")
> [@Gyrate](#):
>
> “Junior modding” …
>
> And I assume I’m not junior modding myself by explaining all that.
No, you’re fine.
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### Author:  [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2011, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/197 "2011-02-13T02:08:42Z")
> [@N8N8N8N](#):
>
> Your suggesting these 3 mile icecaps formed in winter and melted each year? We went over the 30 miles of snow needed to make 3 miles of ice… and average 1/4 mile deep of snow each day not to mention it has to compace into ice before spring.??? There was no summerit never got above freezing thats why its an ice age no heat for 30,000 years.
No, that is not what I am suggesting.
I’m suggesting that one day, at the start of the ice age, there were no ice caps. Then it snowed really hard one winter, and that summer was colder than usual. And during the summer, not all the snow melted. The next winter it snowed again, and the next summer it was cold again, so not only did the snowfall of the previous year not completely melt, the snowfall from this year did not completely melt. And so we have two summers where it was warmer than winter, but not cold enough to completely melt the snow.
See, it wasn’t like it wasn’t warm in the summer, just not warm enough to melt ALL the snow. If even a little bit remains unmelted through the summer, that little bit accumulates and accumulates year by year.
That’s how you get 3 mile thick ice sheets. Not because it snows and snows and never ever melts. Rather because it snows a bit in winter and melts a bit in summer, but it never quite completely melts in summer.
And then you get years that are much warmer, and the mile thick ice sheet is gone. But note that even when the ice sheet is melting, there is still winter, it still snows in winter, and the ice sheet accumulates in winter. But the next summer, the snow that fell that winter melts, plus ice that accumulated possibly thousands of years ago.
This is how, at Barrow Alaska, there is no permanent ice sheet. It’s not permanently summer there–Barrow is frozen solid for 8 months out of the year. It’s just that every summer, the sun manages to melt the accumulated snowpack before the next winter. And meanwhile, over in Greenland at the same temperatures and lattitude, there is a permanent ice cap a mile thick. This isn’t because the top layer of ice never melts. IT DOES. Just not very much.
Of course, the Greenland ice sheet is retreating, so right now every summer the Greenland ice sheet melts a little bit more than it accumulates in winter. But it’s not permanent summer or permanent winter that causes ice sheets to advance or retreat.
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### Author:  [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2011, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/198 "2011-02-13T09:35:24Z")
**What If I am Actually right?**
:dubious:
Meanwhile, What If purple striped monkeys are Actually flying out of my ass?
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### Author:  [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2011, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/199 "2011-02-13T11:45:38Z")
**What If I am Actually right?**
The point is, you’re not.
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### Author:  [@Twoflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Twoflower)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/200 "2011-02-13T16:23:54Z")
> [@Mangetout](#):
>
> **What If I am Actually right?**
>
> The point is, you’re not.
Indeed. As was pointed out way back at the top of the thread, _ **if** _ you were right, there would be obvious astronomical changes, like a change in the position of the sun in the sky, that no one would fail to notice. Those changes have not been observed; therefore your theory is wrong.
No amount of arguing about climatology will make the lack of astronomical observations go away; those arguments _cannot_ somehow make you right. They do seem to be making you more and more wrong, though.
If you’re going to claim to be successfully self-educated, you really need to do a better job of understanding basic evidence and logic.
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