# What If I am Actually right? \[movements of poles\]
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [February 4, 2011, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125 "2011-02-04T06:08:01Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 8
### Author:  [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/141 "2011-02-10T17:28:24Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#):
>
> Please don’t confuse Scientologists with science, critical thinking, good education, or anything else.
I didn’t notice the “scientologist” bit. Too big of a tell. I don’t think someone who was genuinely just stupid would do that. That’s fake stupid.
---
### Author:  [@N8N8N8N](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N8N8N8N)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/142 "2011-02-10T21:34:06Z")
> [@Lemur866](#):
>
> Wrong. An ice age is a time when continental glaciers form. And as I said before, whether an ice sheet forms doesn’t just depend on it being cold, it also depends on how much snow falls. See, even during an ice age, there was summer and winter. Snow falls in the winter, snow melts in the summer. You only get a glacier when so much snow falls in the winter that it doesn’t all melt in the summer. (How is Cold different from not melting?)
>
> So, if you have the same temperature in two places, but one place gets less snow, then the place with more snow can form an ice cap, but the place with less snow doesn’t. ( Using a 10:1 ratio for snow to Ice how can one place get 30 miles of snow and another place 1500 miles west not get any? OVer 30,000 years? What did it all drift east?)
>
> That’s because it wasn’t different temperatures. (If it wasn’t different temperatures where did the snow go? Why would it melt every year and the other side 1500 miles away stay frozen?) Interior Alaska didn’t have a warm spot that kept it ice free. It was a DRY spot that got less snow, that’s why it was ice free IN THE SUMMER. It was, of course, covered with snow in the winter, but then in summer the snow melted. It’s not a matter of getting 1 inch of snow a year. Because if all the snow manages to melt in the summer,(HELLO ICE AGE!) then it’s all gone. It’s only when snow doesn’t melt in the summer that you get a permanent ice sheet.
>
> Depends on your definition of “Siberia”. There were small parts of(Small Parts? depends on your definition of small. Everything East of The ural mountains to Alaska is not my idea of small) Siberia that were ice free, but actually the vast majority of Siberia WAS covered with ice.
>
> And as for the notion that places at the same lattitude always have the same temperature, that’s just not true. (NOT Exactly the same temperature but Calaifornia and florida may have different weather patterns as do Maine and Washington state but they are still paired in the same temperate zones.) The east coast of North America is colder than the west coast of North America, at the same lattitue. The east cost of North America is much colder than the west coast of Europe, at the same lattitue.
But you are still avouding the 800 pound gorilla in the room the Size location and shape of the Ice Cap. How did that form and leave alaska ice free?
---
### Author:  [@N8N8N8N](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N8N8N8N)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2011, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/143 "2011-02-10T21:35:36Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#):
>
> Please don’t confuse Scientologists with science, critical thinking, good education, or anything else.
>
> Please don’t use the phrase “believe in science.” Science is based on reasonable proof and clear disproof, never belief.
>
> Please don’t claim that all deities live in the skies or that they grant wishes. Poseidon still controls the sea, and is more likely to grant 10m swells than a wish for smooth sailing.
>
> Please don’t keep a mind so open that everything falls out. You’ll be forever cleaning up after yourself.
No problem if you don’t equate lack of formal education to stupidity, How’s that?
---
### Author:  [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2011, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/144 "2011-02-10T21:44:25Z")
> [@N8N8N8N](#):
>
> No problem if you don’t equate lack of formal education to stupidity, How’s that?
Fine by me. I’ve known far too many stupid people with post-graduate formal education.
---
### Author:  [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2011, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/145 "2011-02-10T21:46:59Z")
> [@N8N8N8N](#):
>
> But you are still avouding the 800 pound gorilla in the room the Size location and shape of the Ice Cap. How did that form and leave alaska ice free?
Um…you quoted the bit where he explains how that worked. Did you miss it?
To recap: Glaciers don’t form everywhere it’s cold. They form anywhere it snows so much in the winter that it doesn’t all melt in the summer. So if it snows 10’ in the winter and melts 8’ in the summer and snows another 10’ the next winter and melts another 8’ the next summer and so on, eventually you get enough permanent buildup of snow to cause glaciation.
And snow doesn’t just require cold; it also requires humidity. If the air is dry, it won’t snow no matter how cold it gets. The interior of Alaska is fairly dry. Therefore - not much snow.
---
### Author:  [@N8N8N8N](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N8N8N8N)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/146 "2011-02-10T21:48:48Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#):
>
> On the bright side, **rache** , he’s not disputing the narcissism.
I seen a oddity not logically explained and thought well do you have a better explanation? So I went about trying to explain what I could not understand. I had an idea which became a theory. So I just put it out for public scrutiny so that others can point out the short falls and I can understand better. This is what I think what do you think. SHow me not what you think is wrong but why you think this is wrong. Your lack of understanding does not make me a narcissist. Tell me why you think this theory is wrong not that you don’t believe it. A belief cannot be argued. Its like me with a box in my hand and two people standing beside me. One says I know what in that box, its god. the other says no way there is no proof god exists you stupid. And I just leave. and they continue to argue about somthing neither has seen. One believes the other thinks its lacks evidence and proof … but neither knows absolutely and I tossed the empty box in the trash.
---
### Author:  [@N8N8N8N](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N8N8N8N)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2011, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/147 "2011-02-10T21:50:16Z")
> [@Gyrate](#):
>
> Um…you quoted the bit where he explains how that worked. Did you miss it?
>
> To recap: Glaciers don’t form everywhere it’s cold. They form anywhere it snows so much in the winter that it doesn’t all melt in the summer. So if it snows 10’ in the winter and melts 8’ in the summer and snows another 10’ the next winter and melts another 8’ the next summer and so on, eventually you get enough permanent buildup of snow to cause glaciation.
>
> And snow doesn’t just require cold; it also requires humidity. If the air is dry, it won’t snow no matter how cold it gets. The interior of Alaska is fairly dry. Therefore - not much snow.
My point is that there is an ICE AGE going on here nothing melts for 30,000 years! Or better still why is the snow melting in Alaska and not 1500 miles to the East?
---
### Author:  [@N8N8N8N](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N8N8N8N)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/148 "2011-02-10T21:53:00Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#):
>
> Fine by me. I’ve known far too many stupid people with post-graduate formal education.
Me too My wife has a Doctorate in English wonderful woman love her dearly but she can’t remember the reciepe for boiling water. 🙂
---
### Author:  [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2011, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/149 "2011-02-10T21:55:08Z")
> [@N8N8N8N](#):
>
> But you are still avouding the 800 pound gorilla in the room the Size location and shape of the Ice Cap. How did that form and leave alaska ice free?
I told you, but you didn’t listen. It’s because although interior Alaska was cold and snow covered in winter, it didn’t get much snow every winter because it was dry, and therefore all the snow melted in the summer, even though the summers were short and not very warm.
Say the summer is warm enough to melt 10 inches of snow. If one place averages 11 inches of snow in the winter, that place will become permanently ice covered. If another place with the exact same temperature gets 9 inches of snow in the winter, that place will not become permanently ice covered.
It is a simple concept, so simple that even people with advanced education could understand it.
---
### Author:  [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2011, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/150 "2011-02-10T22:01:10Z")
> [@N8N8N8N](#):
>
> My point is that there is an ICE AGE going on here nothing melts for 30,000 years! Or better still why is the snow melting in Alaska and not 1500 miles to the East?
Again, this is a totally false impression. You seem to have the idea that during the Ice Age, temperatures in the north fell below 32F year-round, that even in the summer temperatures were below 32F.
But this is not true. Temperatures did not fall below freezing all the time.
In Antarctica, the ice cap starts to melt every summer. It’s just that it doesn’t melt very fast, and before it can melt very much winter rolls around and more snow falls. The balance between snowfall and snow melt is why there is an ice cap, not that it is so cold that the snow never melts.
---
### Author:  [@N8N8N8N](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N8N8N8N)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2011, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/151 "2011-02-10T22:02:13Z")
> [@Lemur866](#):
>
> I told you, but you didn’t listen. It’s because although interior Alaska was cold and snow covered in winter, it didn’t get much snow every winter because it was dry, and therefore all the snow melted in the summer, even though the summers were short and not very warm.
>
> Say the summer is warm enough to melt 10 inches of snow. If one place averages 11 inches of snow in the winter, that place will become permanently ice covered. If another place with the exact same temperature gets 9 inches of snow in the winter, that place will not become permanently ice covered.
>
> It is a simple concept, so simple that even people with advanced education could understand it.
No no I get what your saying what you haven’t answered was HOW. How is it possible for on side to have 30 miles of compressed snow to make 3 miles of ice and 1500 miles west It melts every year? How does baffin island same Parrelle as Alaska? COuld a glacier from over Mane and not Wqashingtom? Could it snow ALL winter in California and not in florida like feet of snow?
---
### Author:  [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2011, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/152 "2011-02-10T22:02:43Z")
> [@N8N8N8N](#):
>
> Tell me why you think this theory is wrong not that you don’t believe it.
I have explained to you the multiple reasons why your theory is wrong. I haven’t just said it’s wrong, I’ve explained why it’s wrong.
And your response is to just ignore what I write, and pretend you didn’t understand it.
---
### Author:  [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2011, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/153 "2011-02-10T22:05:08Z")
> [@N8N8N8N](#):
>
> Me too My wife has a Doctorate in English wonderful woman love her dearly but she can’t remember the reciepe for boiling water. 🙂
She has a doctorate in languages and you expect her to COOK? That’s up there with saying that nothing melts for 30,000 years but snow melts in Alaska.
---
### Author:  [@N8N8N8N](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N8N8N8N)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2011, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/154 "2011-02-10T22:06:15Z")
> [@Lemur866](#):
>
> Again, this is a totally false impression. You seem to have the idea that during the Ice Age, temperatures in the north fell below 32F year-round, that even in the summer temperatures were below 32F. (AHHH NOW YOUR GETTING IT)
>
> But this is not true. Temperatures did not fall below freezing all the time.
>
> In Antarctica, the ice cap starts to melt every summer. It’s just that it doesn’t melt very fast, and before it can melt very much winter rolls around and more snow falls. The balance between snowfall and snow melt is why there is an ice cap, not that it is so cold that the snow never melts.
SO the ice cap went to North Carolina every year melted and reformed? 3 miles of ice every year and melted? thats 30 miles of now! It would have to snow 1/4 mile each day! Must have been hard for the dinosaurs to get around in that 🙂
---
### Author:  [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2011, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/155 "2011-02-10T22:08:18Z")
> [@N8N8N8N](#):
>
> No no I get what your saying what you haven’t answered was HOW. How is it possible for on side to have 30 miles of compressed snow to make 3 miles of ice and 1500 miles west It melts every year? How does baffin island same Parrelle as Alaska? COuld a glacier from over Mane and not Wqashingtom? Could it snow ALL winter in California and not in florida like feet of snow?
Dude, do you think was a snowfall three miles thick every year? There wasn’t. It took thousands of years for that amount of ice to accumulate. And it didn’t all accumulate, because even in the places where ice is accumulating, ice is still melting in the summer. It’s just melting more slowly than it accumulates.
So that mile thick ice sheet isn’t growing every year by the amount of snow that falls on the ice sheet. It’s growing every year by the amount of snow that falls, minus the amount that melts. If the amount that melts increases, or the amount of snow decreases, the glacier retreats. If the amount that melts decreases or the amount of snow increases, the glacier advances.
This is such a simple concept that even someone with a PhD could understand it.
---
### Author:  [@N8N8N8N](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N8N8N8N)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2011, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/156 "2011-02-10T22:10:15Z")
> [@Lemur866](#):
>
> I have explained to you the multiple reasons why your theory is wrong. I haven’t just said it’s wrong, I’ve explained why it’s wrong.
>
> And your response is to just ignore what I write, and pretend you didn’t understand it.
No what you claim is the snow melted in Alaska and I agreed I say the earth was at a different angle the what is isnow you have no explanation. I know there was no snow in Alaska I know it melted but 1500 miles East there it sits 3 miles of ice from North Carolina to Spain And it didn’t melt in spain why? And melted in Alaska why?
---
### Author:  [@N8N8N8N](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N8N8N8N)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/157 "2011-02-10T22:12:01Z")
> [@Lemur866](#):
>
> Dude, do you think was a snowfall three miles thick every year? There wasn’t. It took thousands of years for that amount of ice to accumulate. And it didn’t all accumulate, because even in the places where ice is accumulating, ice is still melting in the summer. It’s just melting more slowly than it accumulates.
>
> So that mile thick ice sheet isn’t growing every year by the amount of snow that falls on the ice sheet. It’s growing every year by the amount of snow that falls, minus the amount that melts. If the amount that melts increases, or the amount of snow decreases, the glacier retreats. If the amount that melts decreases or the amount of snow increases, the glacier advances.
>
> This is such a simple concept that even someone with a PhD could understand it.
Look I get that. I agree with that. BUT how could it be warmer in Alaska than Spain? Where the ice did not melt?
---
### Author:  [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2011, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/158 "2011-02-10T22:14:23Z")
> [@N8N8N8N](#):
>
> No no I get what your saying what you haven’t answered was HOW. How is it possible for on side to have 30 miles of compressed snow to make 3 miles of ice and 1500 miles west It melts every year?
Remember: it’s not just that the snow melts, it’s that it doesn’t fall (or fall as much) in the first place.
> [@](#):
>
> BUT how could it be warmer in Alaska than Spain? Where the ice did not melt?
Nng. I give up.
---
### Author:  [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2011, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/159 "2011-02-10T22:14:57Z")
> [@N8N8N8N](#):
>
> No what you claim is the snow melted in Alaska and I agreed I say the earth was at a different angle the what is isnow you have no explanation. I know there was no snow in Alaska I know it melted but 1500 miles East there it sits 3 miles of ice from North Carolina to Spain And it didn’t melt in spain why? And melted in Alaska why?
Because there was less snow in Alaska.
Two weeks ago we had a light snowfall here. The grocery store where I live plowed their parking lot and piled all the snow in a big heap in the corner. Two days later, it got a bit warmer and all the snow melted.
Except, remarkably, for the snow in the big pile. It stayed for two weeks!
How was that possible? It was the same temperature. But for some reason, the one inch of snow melted completely, but the 6 foot deep pile of snow had melted to a 3 foot pile of snow. It didn’t melt in the pile, why? And it melted on my lawn, why?
---
### Author:  [@N8N8N8N](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N8N8N8N)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2011, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125/160 "2011-02-10T22:15:43Z")
> [@Gyrate](#):
>
> Remember: it’s not just that the snow melts, it’s that it doesn’t fall (or fall as much) in the first place.Nng. I give up.
How about the north pole was over Europe?
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125.md?page=7)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-i-am-actually-right-movements-of-poles/570125.md?page=9)