# What if killing Soleimani was the right move? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 9, 2020, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-killing-soleimani-was-the-right-move/846193 "2020-01-09T22:52:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-killing-soleimani-was-the-right-move/846193/81 "2020-01-11T20:52:43Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Did we target Iranians? Is this a serious question? Do you think the Iranian-backed militia attacked our embassy for shits and giggles? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-killing-soleimani-was-the-right-move/846193/82 "2020-01-11T20:56:09Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > They are all criticizing the killing itself. They don’t think the killing itself was worth it. They are saying that we are better off if this guy was still alive today. We can reach the conclusion that this was a justified and necessary killing regardless of how horrible a person Trump is. It seems like this point is eternally going to sail over your head, but nobody except you is trying to talk about the killing just on its own merits. The value of a military action _must_ be justified based on the cost vs. benefits. It seems like the short-term cost was 176 dead people. It could have been a lot more, and we simply don’t know what the long-term costs are yet. It would be foolish to assume there won’t be any given the complexity of the region. > [@](#): > > Who’s gonna make us leave? They didn’t ask us in and if we feel it is our national security interest, I doubt we will care if they ask us out. If it is not in our national security interest and it has more to do with regional politics then it’s dealers choice. If we’re asked to leave, and we don’t, then now we are a military occupier of Iraq. Do you remember how that went last time around? It didn’t go well. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-killing-soleimani-was-the-right-move/846193/83 "2020-01-11T20:59:52Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Perhaps you have iiandyiii, Monty, Snobaorder Bo, Little Nemo, Big T, Der Trihs, and many others on ignore because that is exactly what they are doing. > > They are all criticizing the killing itself. They don’t think the killing itself was worth it. They are saying that we are better off if this guy was still alive today. We can reach the conclusion that this was a justified and necessary killing regardless of how horrible a person Trump is. Or, “we” can agree on how full of shit you are. Soleimani and the IRGC have been identified as terrorists (by the Bush Administration) primarily because their actions allegedly resulted in the deaths of many Americans — who were there solely because of the Iraq War – the war which W _lied the US into_. So, tell me, who is the real terrorist here, and why is he still alive? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-killing-soleimani-was-the-right-move/846193/84 "2020-01-11T21:04:18Z")
If Solemaini had dropped dead at random, or from a disgruntled Iranian attack, or some other non-US cause, then that’d be great. But killing him with military force was almost certainly a massive blunder that will backfire and harm America far more than it helped. Because that’s what unilateral US military action from afar against state actors in the Middle East does, as a rule. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-killing-soleimani-was-the-right-move/846193/85 "2020-01-11T21:20:23Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > An Iranian-backed militia killed a single US contractor. The US killed half a dozen militia members. Iran responded with no deaths. The US assassinated a general. Is that all you think Suleimani did? > [@](#): > > The Iranians have been the ones taking measured responses for this entire escalation. The US has been shitting the bed and threatening war crimes. And that makes this killing inappropriate how? > [@](#): > > If only there was a way to do this. Maybe a plan of action. It could even be mutual, with various groups involved in the discussion, negotiation, writing, and enforcement. Since we want it to cover everything, it could be “comprehensive”. And mutual just doesn’t roll of the tongue like “Joint”. Aha! We can create a Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action that will allow Iran relief from sanctions while preventing them from developing nuclear weapons. Yep. They were complying with the nuclear deal by all accounts. So how does that excuse suleimani’s actions? How does that make him in any less need of killing? > [@](#): > > Oh wait, we did that. And Trump said “fuck that” and reimposed sanctions. And Iran STILL held to it for over two years, only ending after the US assassinated one of their leaders. Ah so we should have let Suleimani continue to target and kill americans so that Iran won’t force us to bomb the shit out of them when they start up their nuclear program again. > [@](#): > > We’ve somehow managed to make Iran look like the fucking grownups. Still waiting for an explanation for why Suleimani didn’t deserve to die. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-killing-soleimani-was-the-right-move/846193/86 "2020-01-11T21:26:25Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Is that all you think Suleimani did? If all the things he did earlier were worth his death, why did we wait until now? > [@](#): > > And that makes this killing inappropriate how? Because it was done in a neutral country while he was attempting to ease tensions. > [@](#): > > Ah so we should have let Suleimani continue to target and kill americans so that Iran won’t force us to bomb the shit out of them when they start up their nuclear program again. This is farcical at this point. > [@](#): > > Still waiting for an explanation for why Suleimani didn’t deserve to die. Awaiting your enlistment to go fight the Great Devil of Iran. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-killing-soleimani-was-the-right-move/846193/87 "2020-01-11T21:26:40Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Still waiting for an explanation for why Suleimani didn’t deserve to die. You’re waiting because this is irrelevant. Doesn’t matter that he was evil. What matters is whether this helps or hurts the US – and in all likelihood it’s going to hurt us and make our country weaker. That’s what irrational, incompetent flailing tends to do. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-killing-soleimani-was-the-right-move/846193/88 "2020-01-11T21:27:36Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Still waiting for an explanation for why Suleimani didn’t deserve to die. He’s [so cute](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qasem_Soleimani#/media/File:Qasem_Soleimani_with_Zolfaghar_Order.jpg) and we all have a thing for daddys. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-killing-soleimani-was-the-right-move/846193/89 "2020-01-11T21:31:37Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I can think that the world would be a better place if someone was dead without advocating killing them or even thinking that killing them is a prudent course of action. I think this a lot, about a lot of people. Case in point; I did not shed a tear when Epstein died and I believe the world is better when he’s not breathing. But I’d preferred if he had at least lived long enough to be interrogated, to stand trial, and for the wheels of justice to turn fully. I definitely would not have advocated a vigilante street killing of him in lieu of prosecution. I’m not saying this is equivalent to the Iranian situation because we can’t go arrest one of their generals, but it does support the specific point I believe you are making. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-killing-soleimani-was-the-right-move/846193/90 "2020-01-11T21:31:50Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If you think this kind of thing is a good idea, and you’re a US citizen, in good health, under 45, and haven’t served in the military, then you’re a fucking pathetic sniveling chickenhawk coward who should stay in your basement and stop inflicting your pathetic cowardice that risks American lives on the rest of the country. > > Fuck all the cowardly warmongers, now and forever. If you think this kind of thing is a bad idea because there MIGHT be some sort of repercussions to killing a guy responsible for countless civilian deaths and a significant number of american deaths and you haven’t lost family and loved ones to Suleimani’s actions and don’t have any loved ones that might be hurt by Suleimani’s actions, then you are a fucking pathetic snivelling coward who want to appease tyrants and murderers just so that they don’t have to worry about a country like Iran attacking us. You should stay in your basement and stop inflicting your actual cowardice that is costing us actual american lives on the rest of us. Fuck all the actual cowards, now and forever. I don’t actually believe this but your sentiments apply equally and more accurately to the folks who think we shouldn’t have killed this guy who was actively killing Americans because they think Iran might kill americans. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-killing-soleimani-was-the-right-move/846193/91 "2020-01-11T21:35:54Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I don’t actually believe this but your sentiments apply equally and more accurately to the folks who think we shouldn’t have killed this guy who was actively killing Americans because they think Iran might kill americans. We shouldn’t have done it because it was incompetent, irrational flailing against a state actor. There are a million ramifications that this could cause, and almost all of them are bad for America. We should act with restraint, because not doing so unleashes chaos. Why are you not advocating US using its power to kill all the thousands upon thousands of other evil people around the world? Why was killing this single guy so important and valuable for America, and why are you so unconcerned by the ramifications of using American force abroad? And I do have friends (and former comrades) serving abroad, including in Iraq. They’re now far more at risk than they were before. Why do you think the US military ordered so many of our people to leave Iraq after the irrational attack? So fuck you for putting my friends at greater risk, with no risk to yourself, just because you believe in the idiotic Rumsfeldian usage of force. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-killing-soleimani-was-the-right-move/846193/92 "2020-01-11T21:37:33Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > If you think this kind of thing is a bad idea because there MIGHT be some sort of repercussions to killing a guy responsible for countless civilian deaths and a significant number of american deaths and you haven’t lost family and loved ones to Suleimani’s actions and don’t have any loved ones that might be hurt by Suleimani’s actions, then you are a fucking pathetic snivelling coward who want to appease tyrants and murderers just so that they don’t have to worry about a country like Iran attacking us. You should stay in your basement and stop inflicting your actual cowardice that is costing us actual american lives on the rest of us. > > Fuck all the actual cowards, now and forever. > > I don’t actually believe this but your sentiments apply equally and more accurately to the folks who think we shouldn’t have killed this guy who was actively killing Americans because they think Iran might kill americans. You sure talk a big game about sending others to die. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-killing-soleimani-was-the-right-move/846193/93 "2020-01-11T21:38:24Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > I’m not as sanguine as you. Crush Iran’s military handily in any confrontation? Yes. Regime change? I’m less sure of that - the Iranian government may not be overwhelmingly popular, but unlike the late Iraqi government under Saddam Hussein, it actually does have a real constituency. And Iran has far more of a national consciousness than Iraq. So did Saddam (see baathists) I’m not sanguine either but if they pull something like 9/11, I’m would say we should bomb the shit out of them until the populace brings us any surviving members of the supreme council with a bow on top. I am happy to just wash our hands of the place. Aside from maybe the kurds, noone wants us there. > [@](#): > > Attacks on the whole tend to cause nationalistic people to rally against the attacker. Threatening to hit “cultural centers” is not going to endear you to even the most ardent internal enemies of the mullahs. Yeah Trump is a fucking dick. When he said cultural center, I suspect he meant the religious sites in Iran. The sooner we are rid of this guy the better. > [@](#): > > Not saying it isn’t possible. But I wouldn’t assume a foregone conclusion like that. There is no question. We might have to go back in and bomb the shit out of them a few times before the message stuck but we can institute regime change if for no other reason than noone will want to lead the regime. > [@](#): > > It isn’t necessarily or entirely what Iran will do. This sort of [commentary](https://www.csis.org/analysis/american-threat-america-gulf) is worth paying attention to IMHO. It isn’t all missiles and assassinations. There is a lot of tricky realpolitik to navigate here and the United States can really( has really, arguably )shoot itself in the foot diplomatically. Serious consequences could potentially reverberate down years, not just necessarily days, weeks or months. > > Iran _could_ win politically what they could never win militarily. And that will be substantially on the Trump administration’s head. A lot of things could happen and we won’t know but ISTM that some people are already passing judgment and saying that this was a total disaster. The killing of Suleimani wasn’t a disaster. Talking about destroying cultural centers was a pretty big step in that direction but we aren’t there yet. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-killing-soleimani-was-the-right-move/846193/94 "2020-01-11T21:40:11Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > If you think this kind of thing is a bad idea because there MIGHT be some sort of repercussions to killing a guy responsible for countless civilian deaths and a significant number of american deaths and you haven’t lost family and loved ones to Suleimani’s actions and don’t have any loved ones that might be hurt by Suleimani’s actions, then you are a fucking pathetic snivelling coward who want to appease tyrants and murderers just so that they don’t have to worry about a country like Iran attacking us. You should stay in your basement and stop inflicting your actual cowardice that is costing us actual american lives on the rest of us. > > Fuck all the actual cowards, now and forever. > > I don’t actually believe this but your sentiments apply equally and more accurately to the folks who think we shouldn’t have killed this guy who was actively killing Americans because they think Iran might kill americans. It might be difficult to understand from your high horse and adrenalin fueled war games, but **iiandyiiii** actually served the country from which you claim to speak for. Perhaps sending people to their deaths for the capricious, empty/arrogant posturing of clueless internet warriors (and a lazy unaware president) means something more to him? It should to you too, but lives clearly don’t. ---
**Author:** ![nanancyy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/53a042/32.png) [@nanancyy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nanancyy)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-killing-soleimani-was-the-right-move/846193/95 "2020-01-11T21:45:32Z")
I can’t seem to find out for certain if anybody was killed in Iran’s attack on the military base in Iraq. The best answer I can find is that no Americans were killed, and some people are satisfied with that. Apparently the attack on the Ukranian plane was an error, and again, people are happy because no Americans were killed. That is supposed to make everything OK. Whether in error or on purpose, Iran’s actions are a response to our actions. At least 176 people are dead. We set this series of events in motion. Even if Iran has decided to back off, the governments of the people killed on the plane are probably not too happy with the United states and Iran. We don’t know what other repercussions lie ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-killing-soleimani-was-the-right-move/846193/96 "2020-01-11T21:49:17Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > But is the United States justified in policy that violates Iran’s sovereignty and makes war more likely in the first place? > > You acknowledge that we may not be able to put the country back together again - don’t you think that’s a pretty important consideration consider what a mess we got when law and order collapsed in Iraq and Syria? Any lack of stability in Iran would almost immediately spread to Iraq. The entire region would be on fire. Typo on my part. I am NOT opposed to war under any circumstance. I think that you need justification for war. How did we violate Iran’s sovereignty? Did we invade? If we left after killing Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden, we would have been out of there a decade ago. It’s the “sticking around to try fix things because it’s the right thing to do” part that is causing direct issues for us. I agree, the messy part is trying to manage things without setting the middle east on fire. And there are two tricks to that: Not give a shit if the region is on fire and just shoot some missiles there whenever a regime starts to threaten us. This would make us monsters. Just take over like we did with countries like Germany or Japan after the war, don’t even pretend that we are just there to help out. You are now a US territory, your athletes can still compete under your own flag at the Olympics but we have rescinded your sovereignty. This would make us about as almost as bad as the Nazis. Fortunately the politician’s (including the theocratic politician’s) instinct for self preservation is going to prevent this from happening. It is not likely that the 99 pound weakling acts unreasonably when confronted by the 800 pound gorilla. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-killing-soleimani-was-the-right-move/846193/97 "2020-01-11T21:51:18Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > You people flip out if someone doesn’t perform the proper rituals in front of cloth. You also invade countries under false pretenses, put children in concentration camps, and want to force women to bear children against their will out of superstition. You elected a leader who sees fit to torture prisoners and murder their families. Sit down. We’re bigger than you. Make us. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-killing-soleimani-was-the-right-move/846193/98 "2020-01-11T21:53:56Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Not that you are cognitively aware of it but, the crazy spectre of war that Trump capriciously plunged everyone into cost us American-Iraqi support, Irainian negotiations, and (this is a big one) a plane of people. And another poster blaming america for a plane that Iran shot down. We made them do it? > [@](#): > > It could have also easily ran into a full-blown war, but you seem unfazed by any of this. So we should have just let this guy keep killing american personnel and syrian civilians. I don’t see a lot of iraqi americans marching in protest of this guy’s death. I see syrian americans celbrating it. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-killing-soleimani-was-the-right-move/846193/99 "2020-01-11T21:58:31Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > And another poster blaming america for a plane that Iran shot down. We made them do it? Yep, Trump himself made the Iranians shoot down that plane. You got me. Hard to see with all this egg on my face. > [@](#): > > So we should have just let this guy keep killing american personnel and syrian civilians. > > I don’t see a lot of iraqi americans marching in protest of this guy’s death. > > I see syrian americans celbrating it. Warning (to put the subtext into text for ya), I stopped arguing you in good faith awhile ago. You are just hilariously too stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-killing-soleimani-was-the-right-move/846193/100 "2020-01-11T22:11:35Z")
double post. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-killing-soleimani-was-the-right-move/846193.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-killing-soleimani-was-the-right-move/846193.md?page=6)