What if King Edward VIII had insisted on marrying Wallis Simpson?

Freddy the Pig is right. Once Edward had tried to appeal over the heads of the politicians, anything could have happened.

But there are several other factors that need to be borne in mind.

The first is whether Wallis Simpson would ever have let him marry her on those terms. As it was, she developed a very severe case of cold feet once the scale of the crisis became apparent. Her preference for a morgantic marriage is the most obvious indication that her instinct was to pull back from the brink. What probably made the difference was the realisation that she would become the object of intense public vilification. That scared her. Agreeing to marry Edward in defiance of his ministers would only have made it all even worse.

Then there is Baldwin’s position. It is easy with hindsight to see him as the person who forced Edward to abdicate. But that is because Edward went so easily. Would Baldwin have been so steadfast if Edward had held out? What needs to be remembered is that Baldwin had already decided that he would retire in 1937, using the coronation as the pretext. So, on the one hand, he had nothing to lose. That might actually have made him more willing than most of his colleagues to take the gamble of risking everything. But he did have something to lose: his reputation. Resigning over the king’s marriage would probably have been the worst possible way of ending his career, ruining his carefully cultivated image as the statesmanlike political broker. His instinct to do a face-saving deal might therefore have reasserted itself had events gone differently. In fact, in a sense, he did end up doing a face-saving deal, albeit one in which Edward abdicated.

Moreover, any marriage (in England) could only have been a civil one. Which would only have raised exactly the same legal issues as Prince Charles encountered earlier this year. And just because those issues did not prevent Prince Charles marrying does not mean that those same issues would not have been seized on by those wishing to prevent Edward VIII marrying. It would have been very tempting for Edward’s opponents to argue that, without a change in the law, any marriage by him to Mrs Simpson could not be valid under any circumstances.

While Edward probably did think that the potential powers he retained as king were rather greater than was realistically the case, he made no attempt to use them. Quite the opposite. The criticism made by those around him was instead that he wasn’t playing enough of a role in government business.

But that’s not the same as saying that,

What he did not want to be was a king in the style of his father. Nor is it obvious that his father’s style was the only way of doing the job. What Edward had come to dislike was the constant round of worthy, humdrum public appearances that the Royal Family - and George V, in particular - had discovered as a substitute for their declining political influence. Instead, what Edward seems to have wanted to be was a royal celebrity. Which, in its own vaguely thought-out way, was sort of prescient. He had shown that he do the glamour and that made the stuffy, boring bits irrelevant, didn’t it? Why did he have to show himself to his subjects when the new media could do that for him?

Of course, as his brother and niece were to show, concentrating instead on the stuffy, boring bits was actually the better formula for winning medium-term popularity.

Thing is, I think Edward liked being royalty, but never wanted to be KING. He had a lot of issues growing up, but he was always something of a socialite. He didn’t like responsibility, he dreaded it like poison.

He wouldn’t have made a very good king in the long run, quite frankly.

Also, I’ve heard that while everyone thinks that the family hated Wallis, it was the opposite. It was Edward (or David, as he was known in the family) that they never got along with. When he died, I did hear that the Queen Mother made nice with the Duchess of Windsor.

The Queen Mother did not like Wallis. She was convinced she had some sort of sexual power over Edward. She wouldn’t even refer to her by name for years. After the Duke of Windor died she did send Wallis flowers and a card saying"In friendship, Elizabeth" in her own handwriting, but she never visited or recieved her.

something the monarchy has never tried is “recusing” the bit about being the titular head of the CoE. Ed8 could have tried marrying Wallis and agreeing to recuse the CoE job to another Royal.

I must be remembering something else-maybe it was Elizabeth who met Wallis? I dunno.

Queen Elizabeth II met with the Duke and Duchess of Windsor in 1965, 1967 and at Princess Marina’s funeral in 1968. However, I don’t think she met with Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother.

In 1976, the Duchess was to see QE, TQM, but instead received flowers as pointed out by alphaboi867.

Zev Steinhardt

That must have been what I was thinking of. Oh well.

It’s just as well that he abdicated, since Elizabeth would probably have inherited the throne from him anyways. Wasn’t he said to be sterile from a childhood case of the measles?

I’ve heard (no cite) he was hung like a gorilla *, and Wallis’s ability to deal with this was a large part of her charm. And yes, Elizabeth would have become Queen twenty years later than scheduled.

  • Yes. I know. :wink:

One variation I’ve always wondered about: How would the whole thing have played out if Edward had still been Prince of Wales (that is, if his father had lived a couple of years longer)? As Prince I don’t believe he would be bound by ministerial advice, and he was far too old for the Royal Marriages Act to apply. Could the politicians have done anything to prevent him from marrying, or would they have been limited to denying Wallis the title of Queen?

The Royal Marriage Act would still apply to him. Royals (defined as all descendants of King George II, excluding descendants of princesses who marry foreigners) under 25 need the Sovereign’s consent (who is advised be ministers) to marry. Royals over 25 still need the Sovereign’s approval to marry, but they can marry one year after giving notice to the Privy Council of their intention to marry, unless Parliament passes an act against the marriage in the interim.

Now see, I heard he was actually rather scrawny.

There were also rumors that Wallis was a virgin when she married Edward, (despite two prior marriages), that she had that condition (can’t remember the name of it) that she outwardly a woman, but she had a Y chromosome, so she was biologically male or something like that.

Really, all of George V’s kids had issues. George and Mary certainly weren’t model parents.

Heh. Guinastasia, you may not be as well up on great apes as I naturally assumed. Gorillas are a tad deficient in the tackle department, hence the wink in my previous post - and so, according to rumour, was David.

Wouldn’t tell one to his face.
We spoke to a young lady at the zoo. They have four gorillas in the the display. One guy has both women. The other guy had his ear bitten off.
The lady apes follow the other guy around begging for his attentions. She (the zoo lady, not the ape) said it happend forty times the day before, but lasts only a few seconds.

When you look up “TMI” in the dictionary…

Androgen insensitivity syndrome aka testicular feminization. There were also rumours that she’d had an abortion (illegal nearly everwhere in the 30s) and that she was a lesbian ( Queen of the Golden Gummet) and that Edward was gay their prospective marriage a Lavender Marriage.

Ah, thanks.

And thank you, Malacandra. I had no idea about apes.

I can’t find a reliable cite but I’m pretty sure Edward VIII supposedly had the mumps as a teen and that’s why he was allegedly sterile. Wallis is on record as quipping that the former King wasn’t “heir-conditioned.”

I find it hard to believe Wallis was a virgin given all her marriages to some very virile men.

Yup, man is the champion when it comes to penis size, although chimps beat us pound-for-pound in terms of testicularity, all IIRC. That ultra-macho boss ape gettin’ some forty times a day was doing so with an erection about the size of your pinky finger, and let’s face it, if you’d been mounted for a few seconds with something you could barely feel, wouldn’t you be pestering the guy (hah, I crack me up) for seconds? :smiley:

(Though by the twentieth time of asking, I’m thinking you’d be kicking his sorry ass to the kerb. :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: )

Or give the other guy a chance.
'Course then maybe she’d have her ear bitten off. :slight_smile:

I forgot…That means he has teeth…lots of teeth…bigger than his tallywhacker. No wonder he’s such a mean SOB.

Well, this thread certainly went in a direction I didn’t expect when I wrote the OP!

Ah, the glories of the SDMB…