# What if LOTR had an “extended universe” of books like Star Wars does **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 17, 2015, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-lotr-had-an-extended-universe-of-books-like-star-wars-does/740710 "2015-12-17T17:32:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-lotr-had-an-extended-universe-of-books-like-star-wars-does/740710/1 "2015-12-17T17:32:25Z")
There are innumerable “Star Wars” tie-in books, from novels to comics and easy readers. They run the gamut from retelling the original story, to the clone wars, to stories of the offspring of the original characters. (I’ve never read any but have worked in 2 libraries and a bookstore.) My question is for fans of “Lord of the Rings.” Did you ever go in a bookstore and wish there were reams of publications detailing adventures in Middle Earth? I personally am conflicted – on the one hand “why do Star Wars geeks have all the fun”, I think. Then I spy a Terry Brooks novel and thank heaven that the Tolkien estate has protected the Professor’s work. Thoughts? What about the extensions of the Harry Potterverse that seems to be happening? ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-lotr-had-an-extended-universe-of-books-like-star-wars-does/740710/2 "2015-12-17T17:41:25Z")
I’m very happy that LOTR was left as a complete story in a single trilogy. The Star Wars extended universe was part of what just plain exhausted me about Star Wars in the 90s. There was so much stupidity there. On the other hand, it’s not like half the fantasy fiction published since LOTR isn’t just Tolkien with the serial numbers filed off. What was a D&D campaign without reproducing the Fellowship by different names? You had to have a halfling thief and an elf (who are always good with bows) and a dwarf (who are always good with axes), plus a wizard and a ranger. Your best “D&D or Tolkien?” test was whether you had a cleric or paladin in the group. So if you really need a Tolkien fix, there are lots of options, but those options are not allowed to pretend they’re authentic. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-lotr-had-an-extended-universe-of-books-like-star-wars-does/740710/3 "2015-12-17T17:45:51Z")
I could swear though that I did see some YA books that took place in the Tolkein world. One was about a young apprentice to Saruman–I think it was called A Spy in Isengard. Oh here we go… I guess it was an RPG companion book? > **[A Spy in Isengard (Middle-Earth Quest): Amthor, Terry: 9780425112311:...](https://www.amazon.com/Spy-Isengard-Middle-Earth-Quest/dp/0425112314)** > > A Spy in Isengard (Middle-Earth Quest) \[Amthor, Terry\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. A Spy in Isengard (Middle-Earth Quest) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-lotr-had-an-extended-universe-of-books-like-star-wars-does/740710/4 "2015-12-18T10:26:14Z")
I’m a Star Trek fan, but I’ve never felt that any of the various Star Trek stuff–even the stuff I don’t like–ever actually detracted from the good stuff. Heck, not even Star Trek V bothers me. I don’t think anyone in an “expanded universe” would do anything to undermine the original story, so I think it would be absolutely fine. Everyone would realize they weren’t fully canon (unlike the Star Wars fans who got upset when their EU was demoted for the new movie). I don’t think you’d have to worry about his work being sullied. THey wouldn’t introduce some supercloridians that indicated how succeptable you were to the One Ring’s power, or anything. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-lotr-had-an-extended-universe-of-books-like-star-wars-does/740710/5 "2015-12-18T11:55:11Z")
Tolkien did a fairly thorough job of filling in his own expanded universe. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-lotr-had-an-extended-universe-of-books-like-star-wars-does/740710/6 "2015-12-18T14:20:28Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Tolkien did a fairly thorough job of filling in his own expanded universe. I was gonna say. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-lotr-had-an-extended-universe-of-books-like-star-wars-does/740710/7 "2015-12-18T14:21:16Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > My question is for fans of “Lord of the Rings.” Did you ever go in a bookstore and wish there were reams of publications detailing adventures in Middle Earth? There are. Look up Iron Crown Enterprises (ICE) and their Middle Earth Role-Playing (MERP) supplements. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-lotr-had-an-extended-universe-of-books-like-star-wars-does/740710/8 "2015-12-18T15:35:55Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Tolkien did a fairly thorough job of filling in his own expanded universe. I don’t think we should tell the OP about _The Hobbit_. He’ll just move on to a bigger dose with the _Silmarillion_; pretty soon he’ll be on a serious ten-JRRT-letter a day habit and we’ll have another **Qadgop** on our hands. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-lotr-had-an-extended-universe-of-books-like-star-wars-does/740710/9 "2015-12-18T16:03:50Z")
I think it’s too late for that. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-lotr-had-an-extended-universe-of-books-like-star-wars-does/740710/10 "2015-12-18T16:05:07Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > There are. Look up Iron Crown Enterprises (ICE) and their Middle Earth Role-Playing (MERP) supplements. Those are long out of print, unfortunately; ICE went bankrupt in 2000, and lost their license with the Tolkien estate at about that same time. The books (which were often quite good) can likely still be found at used game stores. A few years back, I was involved in a play-by-post Middle Earth RPG with several other SDMB members, set in the Fourth Age. It was a great deal of fun, and a game that I truly miss, but I think that real life got in the way for some of the players. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-lotr-had-an-extended-universe-of-books-like-star-wars-does/740710/11 "2015-12-18T16:06:32Z")
Um, yeah, I know about The Hobbit and the Silmarillion. I just find myself sometimes wishing for more stories of Middle Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-lotr-had-an-extended-universe-of-books-like-star-wars-does/740710/12 "2015-12-18T18:50:26Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > Um, yeah, I know about The Hobbit and the Silmarillion. I just find myself sometimes wishing for more stories of Middle Earth. Maybe you should invest in any of the various Christopher Tolkien compiled histories, or Children of Hurin, or whatever? There isn’t actually a shortage of content. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-lotr-had-an-extended-universe-of-books-like-star-wars-does/740710/13 "2015-12-18T19:58:29Z")
Airk - read 'em ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-lotr-had-an-extended-universe-of-books-like-star-wars-does/740710/14 "2015-12-19T01:43:47Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Those are long out of print, unfortunately; ICE went bankrupt in 2000, and lost their license with the Tolkien estate at about that same time. The books (which were often quite good) can likely still be found at used game stores. I never played MERP, but I bought a bunch of the books because they had such nice maps and other details. Same with Harn. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-lotr-had-an-extended-universe-of-books-like-star-wars-does/740710/15 "2015-12-19T02:31:53Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > Airk - read 'em You can read through the very unofficial Middle Earth Gaming thread that started here and traveled over to Mellophant. [First Adventure Thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=458221) [Middle Earth FA63 D&D Game, the Second Adventure, Scouting Ered Lithui](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=462558) [Middle Earth FA63 D&D Game, Third Adventure, Ered Lithui Mystery Creature](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=471422) [Middle Earth FA63 D&D Game. Fourth Adventure. Journey to Rivendell](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=484150) [Middle Earth FA63 D&D Game: Fifth Adventure - War in Goblin Gate.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=496173) [Middle Earth FA64 D&D Game: Sixth Adventure - Harrying Harad by Sea](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=519319) [Middle Earth FA64 D&D Game: Sixth Adventure - Harrying Harad by Sea.](http://www.mellophant.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9217)conclusion. [Middle Earth FA64 D&D Game: Seventh Adventure – The Ruins of Old Hatha](http://www.mellophant.com/forums/showthread.php?10169-Middle-Earth-FA64-D-amp-D-Game-Seventh-Adventure-%E2%80%93-The-Ruins-of-Old-Hatha&p=180667&viewfull=1) [Middle Earth FA64 D&D Game: Eighth Adventure – Adventure in Raj and bringing Peace to the South.](http://www.mellophant.com/forums/showthread.php?11666-Middle-Earth-FA64-D-amp-D-Game-Eighth-Adventure-%E2%80%93-Adventure-in-Raj-and-bringing-Peace-to-the-South.) [Middle Earth FA64 D&D Game: Ninth Adventure – Against the Cultists](http://www.mellophant.com/forums/showthread.php?12329-Middle-Earth-FA64-D-amp-D-Game-Ninth-Adventure-%E2%80%93-Against-the-Cultists) [Middle Earth FA65 D&D Game: Tenth Adventure – On to the Quest](http://www.mellophant.com/forums/showthread.php?13114-Middle-Earth-FA65-D-amp-D-Game-Tenth-Adventure-%96-On-to-the-Quest) I think I own 90% of the MERP books and everything Prof. Tolkien & Christopher published. ---
**Author:** ![HyacinthBucket](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hyacinthbucket/32/3063_2.png) [@HyacinthBucket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HyacinthBucket)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-lotr-had-an-extended-universe-of-books-like-star-wars-does/740710/16 "2015-12-19T03:56:02Z")
And there’s always fanfiction… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![bmoak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@bmoak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bmoak)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-lotr-had-an-extended-universe-of-books-like-star-wars-does/740710/17 "2015-12-19T06:48:38Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I could swear though that I did see some YA books that took place in the Tolkein world. > > One was about a young apprentice to Saruman–I think it was called A Spy in Isengard. > Oh here we go… I guess it was an RPG companion book? > [A Spy in Isengard (Middle-Earth Quest): Amthor, Terry: 9780425112311: Amazon.com: Books](http://www.amazon.com/A-Spy-Isengard-Middle-Earth-Quest/dp/0425112314) It is a Choose Your Own Adventure books series. They were all the rage in the mid-80s. I know a lot of those were produced were licensed properties, as I had CYOA books for Narnia and Pern, but I had no idea there were Middle Earth-based ones. ---
**Author:** ![bmoak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@bmoak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bmoak)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-lotr-had-an-extended-universe-of-books-like-star-wars-does/740710/18 "2015-12-19T07:09:39Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Those are long out of print, unfortunately; ICE went bankrupt in 2000, and lost their license with the Tolkien estate at about that same time. The books (which were often quite good) can likely still be found at used game stores. > > A few years back, I was involved in a play-by-post Middle Earth RPG with several other SDMB members, set in the Fourth Age. It was a great deal of fun, and a game that I truly miss, but I think that real life got in the way for some of the players. I never bought the ICE MERP books mainly because ICE used the incredibly cumbersome and clunky ARMS Law system for their games. However, I was a big fan of ICE’s Middle Earth: The Wizards collectible card game and expansions. I would love to get more cards and some of the player guides, but they are real scarce. IIRC, a whole warehouse full of stock was destroyed when ICE went bankrupt and Decipher took over the game rights and made their movie-based CCG. The Tolkien RPG license is currently held by Cubicle 7, a UK-based company. [The One Ring Role-Playing Game](http://cubicle7.co.uk/our-games/the-one-ring/) is well-designed game, although I haven’t actually played it, but the books are fun to read on their own. The game takes place five years after the end of The Hobbit, and starts by focusing on a small area of Middle-Earth, basically from the Upper Anduin Vale to the Misty Mountains, and limiting players to a certain set of Heroic Cultures (Barding, Beorning, Woodmen, Lonely Mountain Dwarf, Mirkwood Elf, Hobbit), but have been expanding the game gradually.