# What if McCain had won? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 13, 2012, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-mccain-had-won/637583 "2012-10-13T01:45:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-mccain-had-won/637583/21 "2012-10-14T17:05:53Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > FTR, if Obama wins this year, the democrats are screwed in 2016, unless Biden does the right thing for the party and pulls out of the running for President. Because Joe Biden is the Democratic Party’s answer to Dan Quayle. Joe Biden is an idiot. As the presidential candidate, they wouldn’t be able to put a muzzle on him like they have done pretty successfully the last 4 years. > > YMMV, no purchase necessary, void where prohibited. I don’t think Biden is an idiot, but I also don’t think he will run (or at least, he won’t win the primaries). I would look to see what Hillary is doing…but there are many others who might have a good shot at winning the primaries. As far as if McCain had won - I always said I respected him and would not have been suicidal had he won; that is, until he chose Palin. THAT scared me! For that reason, I was no longer quite as complacent about McCain winning. (Of course, as a huge Obama fan, I was simply speculating about disaster striking when contemplating a McCain win.) I do note that many Republicans here on the boards who thought Palin was just fine and dandy back then have been amazingly quiet since that election ended. I don’t think I saw any great hope/desire that she run for President this year - and yet, back then, they were all smiles and giggles about what an inspired choice she was. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-mccain-had-won/637583/22 "2012-10-14T19:23:26Z")
I think Biden has explicitly said he’s not running, eh? He will genuinely be too old to run in 2016. Clinton at one point earlier in the Obama Presidency said she was done with politics after Obama’s first term (she has said all along she wouldn’t serve as Secretary of State for more than one Presidential term.) But she has been so popular in the job (with consistent approval ratings in the 60s) that I’ve already read some articles nudging and winking about how it’s viable for a 69 year old Hillary (that’ll be her age in '16) running for the Presidency. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-mccain-had-won/637583/23 "2012-10-14T21:09:31Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > As far as if McCain had won - I always said I respected him and would not have been suicidal had he won; that is, until he chose Palin. THAT scared me! For that reason, I was no longer quite as complacent about McCain winning. (Of course, as a huge Obama fan, I was simply speculating about disaster striking when contemplating a McCain win.) > > I do note that many Republicans here on the boards who thought Palin was just fine and dandy back then have been amazingly quiet since that election ended. I don’t think I saw any great hope/desire that she run for President this year - and yet, back then, they were all smiles and giggles about what an inspired choice she was. Funny you bring this up. I don’t know about the board, but my real life friends and folks who are into politics disheartened me greatly when they were so jacked when Palin was picked. I do some volunteer work for the Republican party in my area when I can, and i remember having conversations with people who thought Palin was going to put him over the top. I can almost guarantee thst none of these people knwpew who Palin was, and if they did, they could only recognize it for what it was… A hail mary pass at the end of the game. After she opened her mount, it was game and set. When she winked at me in the debate, it was match. I was not and am not a fan of Obamas… But at McCain’s age, even as in shape as he was and full of energy (i met him after a long day of campaigning, where he had three stops, three speeches, and was still going strong at the end of the day. I was amazed.), i couldnt be sure he would make the 4 years. And the thought of Palin being the President of the US twisted my bowels into a knot. It could have been the single worst VP pick in history, and thats saying something. I would love to know how many times McCain has picked up the phone and talked to her, that winking maverick from Alaska, since the election in 2008. If McCain would have won, he may have had to dump Palin for this year’s election. Either that, or Palin would have had to become so polished in the past foir years to understand the political landscape to the point where asking her a question would not have caused wvery rwpublican in the country to hold their breath. Because at the very LEAST, Hilary would have been the VP candidate this year, and i cant even imafine that debate. Palins only chance would be to come out in lingerie and make it a wet t-shirt contest. (yes, in that case, Palin would get my vote. 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-mccain-had-won/637583/24 "2012-10-14T22:16:40Z")
Pretty sure Bengazi would have gone down more or less as it has, only the tighty-righties would be arguing ferociously that President McCain is blameless in arranging for the embassy security and that the treacherous Democratic Senate is at fault here. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-mccain-had-won/637583/25 "2012-10-14T23:00:43Z")
McCain turn down security requests over political considerations? Very unlikely. McCain lie about it afterwards, even if he had? Also unlikely. Try to change the subject by referring to spending cuts that had nothing to do with it? Not a chance. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-mccain-had-won/637583/26 "2012-10-14T23:04:35Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > After she opened her mount Had she done that McCain would have won with 538 electoral votes.😃 ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-mccain-had-won/637583/27 "2012-10-14T23:23:28Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Had she done that McCain would have won with 538 electoral votes.😃 BWHAAHAHAHAHAA!!: 😃 I have had some of the best typos with this ipad. Wtf did they put in my autocorrect? ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-mccain-had-won/637583/28 "2012-10-15T00:16:05Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > McCain turn down security requests over political considerations? Very unlikely. McCain lie about it afterwards, even if he had? Also unlikely. Try to change the subject by referring to spending cuts that had nothing to do with it? Not a chance. Right. McCain would have opened the pursestrings, tripling and quadrupling every request for military personnel guarding every outpost in the empire without question. But you know what? Even that might not have prevented the Bengazi debacle, unless we also got very lucky too. If they were guarding the ambassador’s life with a platoon of Marines, he might have called them off when he wanted to mingle with the Libyans, or give a talk in a public setting, which is the sort of thing that diplomats do all the time. It’s just a dangerous job, and one that no amount of protection guarantees the safety of those diplomats who do it properly. So I don’t doubt that McCain would have been more inclined to lavish your hard-earned tax dollars on protection, but it might not have done any good anyway. But at least I’d get to bitch about these free-spending GOP Presidents a little bit. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-mccain-had-won/637583/29 "2012-10-15T02:26:09Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > How can it work with no work to be found? If 8% was the problem, 7.8% is no solution. > > The economy sucked when Obama took office!=Fact! > The economy still sucks!=Fact! > > My argument is the economy still sucks and I have facts on my side. > > His argument is the economy would suck worse of McCain had been elected cannot be proven as, it did not happen! > > Actual vs hypothetical is a fixed fight. I win even if everyone else has lost. 20% unemployment is worse than 8%. Agreed? Unemployment peaked at 20% in 1933 IIRC. Krugman called the fact that the stimulus would probably be too small and said it was probable that they wouldn’t be able to apply more stimulus, since Republicans would argue that a fully recovered economy was evidence that it didn’t work. Here’s what he said in January 2009, before Obama took office: And that gets us to politics. This really does look like a plan that falls well short of what advocates of strong stimulus were hoping for — and it seems as if that was done in order to win Republican votes. Yet even if the plan gets the hoped-for 80 votes in the Senate, which seems doubtful, responsibility for the plan’s perceived failure, if it’s spun that way, will be placed on Democrats. I see the following scenario: a weak stimulus plan, perhaps even weaker than what we’re talking about now, is crafted to win those extra GOP votes. The plan limits the rise in unemployment, but things are still pretty bad, with the rate peaking at something like 9 percent and coming down only slowly. And then Mitch McConnell says “See, government spending doesn’t work.” Let’s hope I’ve got this wrong. Krugman predicted both the economic effects in broad terms, and extrapolated the politics correctly based on estimates of Republican mendacity. Anyway, I agree the economy sucked when Obama took office and that it still sucks. I agree with the three major [professional forecasting firms](http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2010/02/assessing-the-stimulus.html) as well as textbook economics that the stimulus plan worked. No contradiction there. None. Ok, now let’s check for partisanship. I think McCain would have turned to his economic advisers (one of them who heads Moody’s, one of the 3 major firms referenced above) and crafted a stimulus plan which would have passed. Given ideological distortion, I have no idea what its shape or adequacy would have been. And that’s political speculation anyway. I repeat my contention: if the Republicans didn’t pass a stimulus package, any Democrat would have sailed to victory in 2012. The reverse is true as well. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-mccain-had-won/637583/30 "2012-10-15T03:29:42Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Right. McCain would have opened the pursestrings, tripling and quadrupling every request for military personnel guarding every outpost in the empire without question. False. Just take the marine detachment guarding the ambassador of Paris and send them to Libya. Money wasn’t the problem. Politics was. It’s the same kind of thinking that caused Clinton to refuse to give our boys armored support in Somalia. So worried about offending someone that they left our guys out to dry. There is a tradeoff between being conciliatory towards other nations’ feelings and protecting our people. Democrats err too much towards the former. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-mccain-had-won/637583/31 "2012-10-15T03:36:09Z")
And when some French nut offs the American ambassador, you always can complain about that nasty muslim-friendly President who pulled the security detail. Assuming it’s a Dem, of course. If it’s a Pubbie, well, shit happens, right? ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-mccain-had-won/637583/32 "2012-10-15T03:37:21Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > 20% unemployment is worse than 8%. Agreed? Unemployment peaked at 20% in 1933 IIRC. YTF are you bringing up 1933? It’s irrelevant! And put a pot of coffee on and do your homework. There were liberals on these boards that attacked me for my disdain for McCain (hey, I’m a poet and didn’t know it!) But McCain cannot be cited as failing at what he didn’t do, or what you think he would have done as he didn’t do it. But we know what Obama did. If the unemployment rate was 8% ( I believe it was higher) 7.8% is nothing to celebrate. Your candidate has failed! And to point at someone who wasn’t President and critique their Presidency that never was is delusional! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-mccain-had-won/637583/33 "2012-10-15T04:27:37Z")
Okay, I’m calling this a hijacked thread and asking the mods to close it. Go argue about the Obama administration in some other thread. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-mccain-had-won/637583/34 "2012-10-15T04:28:38Z")
Well, I think most of us agree that Clinton would have been the overwhelming favorite to be the nominee in 2012 had McCain won in 2008. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-mccain-had-won/637583/35 "2012-10-15T05:23:32Z")
I agree this has gone thoroughly off-course. Most of these posts and arguments would be at home in another thread (and are being made in other threads), so I’m closing this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-mccain-had-won/637583.md?page=1)