# What If New Brunswick Decided to Join The USA? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 13, 2012, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783 "2012-05-13T17:13:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/41 "2012-05-14T17:09:21Z")
So, is finger-wagging at the USA a hobby for just some Canadian Dopers or does it have nationwide popularity there? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/42 "2012-05-14T17:14:50Z")
> [@coffeecat](#): > > +1 > > Yeah, some of my fellow citizens are a bunch of raving fucking loons, but _somebody_ has to stay here and try to make them see reason. But would I still have a nice, Canadian heart if I moved there and wanted a pistol so I could take up target shooting, without my neighbors being afraid of _me_? Speaking for myself, no problem, come on up and bring your target shooting stuff with you! It’s a [popular sport](http://www.targetshooting.ca/) in Canada ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/43 "2012-05-14T17:23:59Z")
> [@furt](#): > > In fairness to America, I can think of at least one other nation that also has some arrogant and intolerant voices eager to silence those who oppose their vision of society… Germany? ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/44 "2012-05-14T17:57:15Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > So, is finger-wagging at the USA a hobby for just some Canadian Dopers or does it have nationwide popularity there? There’s \*\*much \*\*less finger waving up here in Canadia cuz you Americans are too busy (ruling the world?) to pay attention to us to make that worth it; however it’s more like causal smugness. Schadenfreude with a hint of arrogance mixed in for good measure. That’s much of our attitude to the daily polices/crisis that is America. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/45 "2012-05-14T18:06:55Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > And this is a problem how? > > Forget health care and French and the metric system; I would suggest that one of the ways we differ from you is in fear. We don’t fear our neighbours, so we don’t need guns. We don’t fear our banks collapsing; we have put safeguards in place so they don’t. We don’t fear terrorism, so we don’t make you take your shoes off at the airport checkpoint. (And yes, we have suffered terrorism at the hands of the FLQ in 1970, long before the US ever did.) > > But look at the US. Parents fear that their children will become the prey of pedophiles–hence, helicopter parenting. Travellers fear that they will end up in a plane piloted by suicidal Muslims–hence the TSA. Security guards fear that the homes in their care are under attack–hence the Zimmerman killing of Martin. Hell, you make the citizens of your oldest friend and longtime ally show passports at your border, though you went through a hundred years of never needing such things–because suddenly and without reason, you are afraid that Canadians might be terrorists. In short, you are afraid of everything, and all the lip service you pay to concepts such as “liberty” and “freedom” are subservient to “security.” The liberties and freedoms granted by your own Fourth Amendment to your Constitution are violated daily by the TSA, but that’s okay, because it makes you “secure.” :rolleyes: > > Give your head a shake, America. At this point, you are no better than the old Soviet Union was: let’s tell our populace that they are constantly under attack from people who will do them harm. Let’s throw up walls, and tell our population that the walls are for their protection. Let’s tell the population that any non-domestic news source is questionable. Let’s play up the patriotism aspect, fly flags, and denigrate those who do not. > > Seriously, you think any Canadian province, or Canadians themselves, would willingly sign on for that? As I said, America, give your head a shake. Unlike you, Canadians don’t fear. Maybe you can chill out from your hate and name calling and enjoy the Stanley Cup playoffs, which will once again be celebrated in the good ole U S of A. Just don’t hit your head, you may die from shoddy Canadian medical care like Vanessa Redgrave’s daughter. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/46 "2012-05-14T19:55:46Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > If Quebec separated, then the Maritimes would be isolated and might secede. Whether they would want to join the US or remain independent is not clear. (Not to me, anyway.) A few years ago, a Canadian friend of mine (from Ontario, IIRC) told me that he felt the best idea for Canada would be to let Quebec secede, and then let the U.S. take the Maritimes. His reasoning was that the Quebecois really didn’t want to be in Canada anyway, and the Maritimes (save for fishing) were a drag on the rest of the Canadian economy. ---
**Author:** ![apollonia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2bfe46/32.png) [@apollonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/apollonia)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/47 "2012-05-14T19:56:34Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Yes, this might get a bit awkward. The US is already discontinuous on land (some areas are inaccessible from the rest of the country except by air, sea, or Canada). Imagine the mess if NS and PEI suddenly find themselves cut off. I don’t even think there is a land connection between NS and PEI, only a ferry, so travel _between them_ is now a hassle. The [Confederation Bridge](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederation_Bridge) has been open since 1997, but it’s very very close to the Nova Scotia border. The route to the bridge from Nova Scotia is very rural, and in this kind of situation, assuming Nova Scotia and PEI had remained on friendly terms, it’s almost unthinkable to assume New Brunswick would withhold access. I would imagine that Nova Scotia would ask for that chunk of land, which is pretty damn small considering the rest of the land space, in return for another piece of Nova Scotia, probably somewhere along the border. Although certainly the Wood Islands ferry, which runs a seasonal service between Wood Island, PEI, and Caribou, NS, would see a huge boom in business and possibly extend its service out-of-season contingent on being able to afford icebreaker ferries. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/48 "2012-05-14T22:14:48Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Seriously, you think any Canadian province, or Canadians themselves, would willingly sign on for that? As I said, America, give your head a shake. Unlike you, Canadians don’t fear. You seem positively terrified of Americans. In another thread, you actually said, not kidding around but totally seriously, that allowing too many American tourists across the border would cause Canada to lose its multicultural values. Your evidence for this was the claim that the United States doesn’t hold events like Caribana. (Though, of course, it does, as even the most casual Google search would easily reveal.) You further claimed that the influence of American tourists would be to make Canadians start shooting each other. Pot, I’d like you to meet the kettle. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/49 "2012-05-14T23:09:59Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > A few years ago, a Canadian friend of mine (from Ontario, IIRC) told me that he felt the best idea for Canada would be to let Quebec secede, and then let the U.S. take the Maritimes. His reasoning was that the Quebecois really didn’t want to be in Canada anyway, and the Maritimes (save for fishing) were a drag on the rest of the Canadian economy. But, then Canada would have no East Coast. Do Canadians really want to give that up? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/50 "2012-05-14T23:12:25Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > You seem positively terrified of Americans. I’ve read that “America: Threat or Menace?” is your favorite perennial talk-radio topic. America seems to be the **only** thing that frightens Canadians. (Not unreasonably – who else has ever threatened you or invaded you?) ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/51 "2012-05-14T23:15:04Z")
Newfoundland and Labrador were originally colonies of the UK- I believe they did not become part of Canada until after WWII. Would they be adverse to leaving? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/52 "2012-05-14T23:18:26Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Newfoundland and Labrador were originally colonies of the UK- I believe they did not become part of Canada until after WWII. [1949.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_of_Newfoundland) (Actually, Newfoundland-and-Labrador was **one** colony, the Dominion of Newfoundland; now it is one province, called “Newfoundland and Labrador”, which is a bit confusing when you’re trying to count off the names of all ten provinces.) ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/53 "2012-05-14T23:37:06Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > Maybe you can chill out from your hate and name calling and enjoy the Stanley Cup playoffs, which will once again be celebrated in the good ole U S of A. Just don’t hit your head, you may die from shoddy Canadian medical care like Vanessa Redgrave’s daughter. Not sure what kind of hate and name calling you’re seeing here, but anyway, here is some factual information: 1. Of the 4 teams remaining in the playoffs, here is the breakdown of nationalities on their rosters: Canadian: 54 European: 30 US: 29 1. In terms of healthcare, it’s probably best not to rely on individual anecdotes, as these are rarely useful. Instead, you could look at overall indicators of how the healthcare system is working for the population, such as infant mortality rate, maternal death rate, longevity, cancer treatment success, etc. Hint: the Canadian system does not give shoddy medical care. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/54 "2012-05-14T23:49:14Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > 1. In terms of healthcare, it’s probably best not to rely on individual anecdotes, as these are rarely useful. Instead, you could look at overall indicators of how the healthcare system is working for the population, such as infant mortality rate, maternal death rate, longevity, cancer treatment success, etc. Hint: the Canadian system does not give shoddy medical care. Purely anecdotal, but I attended the [2003 World Science Fiction Convention](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/61st_World_Science_Fiction_Convention) in Toronto, and attended a panel discussion (forget the topic) and the subject of Canadian health care came up, and I asked the panel, “Are there any downsides to the Canadian health-care system?” Based on criticism I’d encountered on this Board and elsewhere, I was expecting a heated debate. But all the half-dozen Canadian panelists shrugged, and said, “No.” “No.” No." And seemed rather surprised at the question. Now, granted, the kind of people who will appear as panelists at an SF con are not a representative cross-section of Canadian or any society; generally, they’re smarter and more sophisticated than average. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/55 "2012-05-14T23:51:00Z")
And there was a crowd of at least a hundred at that panel, and not a whisper of dissent did I hear. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/56 "2012-05-15T01:18:44Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I’ve read that “America: Threat or Menace?” is your favorite perennial talk-radio topic. To be honest, that sounds like something you might have read decades ago. It’s painfully 1979; it’s like me asking if the favourite topic in the USA is how the Carter admiistration is doing. Canadian existential angst is as dead as Pierre Trudeau. There is still a lot of weird anti-American sentiment but it’s just xenophobia, not a serious concern about the future of the country. That’s yesterday’s news. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/57 "2012-05-15T01:32:50Z")
Say, what’s New Brunswick like, anyway? Is it a lot different from Maine? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/58 "2012-05-15T01:35:04Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > To be honest, that sounds like something you might have read decades ago. Actually, I read it in a Spider Robinson (Yank-born naturalized Canuck, he is) [novel](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Very_Bad_Deaths) published in 2004. > [@RickJay](#): > > It’s painfully 1979; it’s like me asking if the favourite topic in the USA is how the Carter admiistration is doing. > > Canadian existential angst is as dead as Pierre Trudeau. There is still a lot of weird anti-American sentiment but it’s just xenophobia, not a serious concern about the future of the country. That’s yesterday’s news. Good to know. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/59 "2012-05-15T01:44:04Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Say, what’s New Brunswick like, anyway? Is it a lot different from Maine? Obviously they’re geographically similar, and have similar economic activites at similar levels of wealth. They _seem_ similar as you drive through them. Neither has any large cities of note and have very widely distributed populations, with no particular urban center. The largest city in Maine, Portland, has only 65,000 people in it, while NB’s largest city, Moncton, has about 70,000. Maine has almost twice as many people but, honestly, you’d never notice, they’re so spread out. (Maine’s a little bigger in area, too.) The major difference: New Brunswick is **much** more French than people realize; there is a reason it’s the only officially bilingual province. The aforementioned Moncton’s got to be a third French, at least, as is the province overall. There are separate English and French public school systems, a major French university, the works. Maine is actually the most French of all states, even more than Louisiana, but it’s not remotely comparable to New Brunswick in this manner. ---
**Author:** ![apollonia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2bfe46/32.png) [@apollonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/apollonia)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/60 "2012-05-15T01:50:57Z")
New Brunswick’s economy is strongly, strongly tied to a certain few industries–namely, the fishing industry, and the Irving and McCain family corporations. The Irvings control a gigantic proportion of New Brunswick land for the pulp and paper industry, which employs huge numbers of New Brunswickers, as well as transportation and shipping and shipbuilding, along with Irving Oil and all its subsidiaries, and the Kent chain of stores. The Irvings also control every newspaper except one French-language newspaper in the province. McCain is the second biggest business in Canada, and is headquartered in New Brunswick. Having only been to Maine a couple of times, I have no idea about its economic situation. But New Brunswick’s is mainly driven by: the Irvings, the McCains, the fishing and pulp/paper industries, and to a much smaller extent, the military. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783.md?page=4)