# What If New Brunswick Decided to Join The USA? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 13, 2012, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783 "2012-05-13T17:13:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/121 "2012-05-25T19:58:44Z")
If New Brunswick joined the USA, then my Uncle Gordie could retire from asserting Canadian sovergnity on Seal/Machias. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2012, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/122 "2012-05-27T06:40:14Z")
Every time you mention your Uncle Gordie, I see him as Hap Shaughnessy from Red Green. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2012, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/123 "2012-05-27T07:14:42Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > If New Brunswick joined the USA, then my Uncle Gordie could retire from asserting Canadian sovergnity on Seal/Machias. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Every time you mention your Uncle Gordie, I see him as Hap Shaughnessy from Red Green. Background, please, for ignorant Yanks? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2012, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/124 "2012-05-27T07:15:56Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Oh, I didn’t realize we were in Cafe Society discussing fantasy stories. I thought we were in Great Debates. > > Oh, wait … And what do you think the idea of NB joining the U.S. is?! Hypotheticals is hypotheticals. No need to limit them to the future. “What if?”/AH is **always** good GD material. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/125 "2012-06-01T03:51:50Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Equal yes, independent no, please don’t confuse them. If there were an Imperial Parliament, or a Westminster Parliament including members from the non-British kingdoms/dominions/colonies, then they get to lord it **over Britain itself** just like British members do (and would **outnumber** the British members, too, by the mid- to late-19th Century). Is this such a hard concept to grasp?! Hahahaha no. The old lords would be in Britain, and the rottenest boroughs. The colonies would be kept down. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, that’s why there are different levels. In the U.S., we have state legislatures doing some things and Congress doing others. There’s endless turf-battles between the levels, but, apart from one little kerfuffle in 1861-65, it always works out well enough. Hahahaha no. Federalist theory of limited central government has stood in the way of socialized medicine for decades, and most states lack the courage to institute it themselves for fear of poor neighbors flooding over the borders. (Don’t know what’s stopping Hawai’i.) Single-payer was able to get started in Manitoba because it’s pretty hard to get there, and not terribly attractive land, in general. ---
**Author:** ![medicated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@medicated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/medicated)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/126 "2012-06-01T10:03:41Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Single-payer was able to get started in Manitoba because it’s pretty hard to get there, and not terribly attractive land, in general. Saskatchewan. We get no respect, sigh. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/127 "2012-06-01T19:58:05Z")
Tommy Douglas was a hero and great Canadian. Feel better now? ---
**Author:** ![medicated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@medicated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/medicated)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/128 "2012-06-01T20:40:01Z")
Thanks. That’s much better. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/129 "2012-06-01T20:59:06Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Hahahaha no. The old lords would be in Britain, and the rottenest boroughs. The colonies would be kept down.Hahahaha no. Federalist theory of limited central government has stood in the way of socialized medicine for decades, and most states lack the courage to institute it themselves for fear of poor neighbors flooding over the borders. (Don’t know what’s stopping Hawai’i.) Single-payer was able to get started in Manitoba because it’s pretty hard to get there, and not terribly attractive land, in general. Well, now, that’s just silly. Universal health insurance got started because it was politically popular. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/130 "2012-06-01T21:32:16Z")
Some data to back up the “bluest state in the nation” comment, not that there was much doubt: [A poll](http://threehundredeight.blogspot.ca/2012/05/obama-vs-romney-canadian-style.html)was released yesterday about Canada’s voting preferences in the US election, and Obama “won” Atlantic Canada by a 65-7 margin versus Romney. Even Alberta goes for Obama by a little more than a 2:1 margin. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/131 "2012-06-01T22:05:59Z")
> [@medicated](#): > > Saskatchewan. We get no respect, sigh. I’m sorry. As a childhood fan of Farley Mowat, I am really embarrassed to disrespect Saskatchewan. I really thought Tommy Douglas was from Manitoba somehow. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/132 "2012-06-02T02:04:17Z")
> [@medicated](#): > > Saskatchewan. We get no respect, sigh. **You** should be satisfied if people can just spell it. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/133 "2012-06-02T02:21:09Z")
> [@Raygun99](#): > > Some data to back up the “bluest state in the nation” comment, not that there was much doubt: [A poll](http://threehundredeight.blogspot.ca/2012/05/obama-vs-romney-canadian-style.html)was released yesterday about Canada’s voting preferences in the US election, and Obama “won” Atlantic Canada by a 65-7 margin versus Romney. > > Even Alberta goes for Obama by a little more than a 2:1 margin. I find these results totally unsurprising. What I don’t get is this: [QUOTE=308] A quick calculation indicates that Canada’s 10 states would total 58 electoral college votes, based on how they are portioned out in the United States. [/QUOTE] That number obviously cannot be correct; he’s erred somehow, I assume by forgetting to account for Senators. Assuming you make PEI a state, which would be stupid but let’s run with it, each province would get 2 senators plus an appropriate number of reps. So the electoral votes: Ontario - 20 Quebec - 13 British Columbia - 8 Alberta - 7 Manitoba - 4 Saskatchewan - 3 Nova Scotia - 3 New Brunswick - 3 Newfoundland - 3 PEI - 3 So I get 67. Not that much different but it makes more sense. If Canada magically became states 51-60 on November 1, 2012, obviously it would become pretty easy for Obama to secure election. But, in the long run, the political landscape would change; the parties wouldn’t stay the same. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/134 "2012-06-02T04:14:44Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Federalist theory of limited central government has stood in the way of socialized medicine for decades, and most states lack the courage to institute it themselves for fear of poor neighbors flooding over the borders. (Don’t know what’s stopping Hawai’i.) Single-payer was able to get started in Manitoba because it’s pretty hard to get there, and not terribly attractive land, in general. I’ll be the first to admit the American federal system has its downsides, but is it really any different from the Canadian federal system? ---
**Author:** ![dtrobson099](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@dtrobson099](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtrobson099)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/135 "2012-06-02T04:39:23Z")
Canada always sounds like such a breath of fresh air to me politically. Too bad I can’t get into hockey and I HATE snow. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/136 "2012-06-02T05:40:18Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I’ll be the first to admit the American federal system has its downsides, but is it really any different from the Canadian federal system? The geography is different. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/137 "2012-06-02T05:49:08Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > The geography is different. What?! The geography is practically identical! Canada is the same size as the U.S., it has plains, mountains, forests, seacoasts, just like the U.S. – it even has deserts if you count the tundra; the only important difference is climate, which is the sole reason why Canada is comparatively underpopulated. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/138 "2012-06-02T08:10:16Z")
There’s like, one road connecting Manitoba to the east. That’s different. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/139 "2012-06-02T09:51:45Z")
IMO,. having an independent Canada is one of the most undervalued assets of the US. Americans save those with connections to overseas markets or resident in a few ‘multicultural’ metropolises tend to be very provincial, with “how we Americans think” contrasted with “how people overseas think.” Even Mexico has a significant linguistic/cultural split from who we are. But Canada is on our borders, speaks the same language by and large, has many of the same institutions, yet is manifestly different and does things differently than we (US) Americans. Want to know how a $1 coin done right and with the $1 bill pulled would work out in practice? They did it. Want to know the effects of national SSM? They did it. And they’re happy and patriotic being Canadians; they don’t want to be part of the country with Watergate, DOMA, Reaganomics, and the rejection, since the Reagan years, of 200 years of never starting a war in favor of some bizarre theory that our high moral standards justify aggression. Canada is the mirror we need to see what we miss noticing about ourselves. And **we** need it to be there for that reason. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783/140 "2012-06-02T10:04:21Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > There’s like, one road connecting Manitoba to the east. > > That’s different. Given that there’s really nothing in northern Manitoba worth connecting to nothing in particular in north-Northern Ontario, does this matter? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-new-brunswick-decided-to-join-the-usa/621783.md?page=8)