# What IF Noah's Ark was found? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 13, 2000, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-noahs-ark-was-found/17821 "2000-03-13T19:14:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![SkeptiJess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@SkeptiJess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkeptiJess)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2000, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-noahs-ark-was-found/17821/41 "2000-03-13T22:30:00Z")
> [@](#): > > He could have been paranoid or perhaps overly cautious. Just look at the people who build VERY elaborate bomb shelters. Look at people who get all worried over provably false predictions by Nostradamus. If there were a “wise man” saying that there would be a VAST flood, Noah may have overreacted and built a big boat. > > _Hmmm, good point. But why would somebody say that, that a flood was coming? Base on what?_ Well, plenty of people have waded into this mess without my echoing their many excellent posts. However, I decided to address the above, since no one else did. Why would someone 4000 years ago say a flood was coming? Because it is human nature to talk about what we fear. There have been floods as long as there have been rivers (much longer than 4000 years). Furthermore, because the first civilizations developed near rivers, floods have been one of the banes of humankind since the beginning of civilization (also longer ago than 4000 years). This is why there have always been flood stories – because floods are fairly common and extremely destructive. It wouldn’t surprise me at all to find out that an early soothsayer declared that “a flood is coming, a great flood, greater and more destructive than any previously known.” Neither would it surprise me to find out that some people believed him. Doomsday prediction has been around a long time – longer even than 4000 years. * * * ``` Jess ``` Remember the Straight Dope credo: It’s all about wiping out ignorance, not coddling the ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![Nen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Nen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nen)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2000, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-noahs-ark-was-found/17821/42 "2000-03-13T22:37:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by pashley: > \*\*Nen: > > Can you be more specific? Pertaining to what?\*\* Are you a literalist insofar as you take the Bible literally? That is, words in the bible, verbatim, correspond to actual events; moreover, there are no fictional or embellished tales included in the Bible written for the purpose of conveying a concept of the Christian or Judaic faith. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2000, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-noahs-ark-was-found/17821/43 "2000-03-13T22:46:00Z")
> [@](#): > > What I was asking was, given the boat parameters, what would non-believers have to say? That’s all. _And they answered you._ So why are you being rude? Do you think people are lying to you? You asked, people answered. What’s the problem? -andros- ---
**Author:** ![pashley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e0b2c6/32.png) [@pashley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pashley)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2000, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-noahs-ark-was-found/17821/44 "2000-03-13T22:49:00Z")
Nen: > [@](#): > > Are you a literalist insofar as you take the Bible literally? That is, words in the bible, verbatim, correspond to actual events; moreover, there are no fictional or embellished tales included in the Bible written for the purpose of conveying a concept of the Christian or Judaic faith. I honestly haven’t made my mind up, but am leaning toward the non-literalist side. I believe that Jesus lived, and he was divine, yes. * * * Patrick Ashley ‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.’ -Edmund Burke ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2000, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-noahs-ark-was-found/17821/45 "2000-03-13T23:39:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Spiritus Mundi: > I would take it as absolute proof that the legend of Utnapishtim is correct and that, by extension, Gilgamesh had indeed encountered the scorpion men on his quest for the pearl of life. This also provides tangential support for the entire Sumerian pantheon, so I would immediately set out to show respect to Ninkasi (she-who-fills-the-mouth) by drinking a good strong beer. Actually, Spiritus, Utnapistim’s ark was a perfect cube, so your argument doesn’t (bad pun alert) hold water. I like the beer idea, though. * * * The trouble with Sir Launcelot is by the time he comes riding up, you’ve already married King Arthur. ---
**Author:** ![Nen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Nen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nen)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2000, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-noahs-ark-was-found/17821/46 "2000-03-13T23:43:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by pashley: > \*\*Nen: > > I honestly haven’t made my mind up, but am leaning toward the non-literalist side. I believe that Jesus lived, and he was divine, yes.\*\* So it is feasible, by your own admission, that a boat could be found under the circumstances you have delineated and have nothing to do with the biblical tale. It is possible that such a discovery would lend some credit to the existence of Noah’s Ark; however, it is also possible that it is a boat with no biblical correlation and the tale of Noah’s Ark could be fictious. Do you concur with the latter possibility or do you wish to retract some of your prior statements? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2000, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-noahs-ark-was-found/17821/47 "2000-03-13T23:57:00Z")
How big is a cubit anyway? I’m pretty sure that we don’t actually know, so the dimensions of the hypothetical boat don’t matter, do they? ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2000, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-noahs-ark-was-found/17821/48 "2000-03-14T00:04:00Z")
A cubit is the distance from the elbow to the tips of the fingers, approximately 18". ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2000, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-noahs-ark-was-found/17821/49 "2000-03-14T00:34:00Z")
Gaudere: Thanks. My cubit by the way is over twenty inches (that sounds like a good pick-up line) ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2000, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-noahs-ark-was-found/17821/50 "2000-03-14T01:05:00Z")
You know what they say about men with big cubits… I suspect a lot of people have cubit-measurements over 18" nowadays (not to disparage you or anything 😉 ); people were shorter back then. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2000, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-noahs-ark-was-found/17821/51 "2000-03-14T02:14:00Z")
The lovely and talented Gaudere wrote: > [@](#): > > You know what they say about men with big cubits… We have to wear big gauntlets? ---
**Author:** ![bda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5e9695/32.png) [@bda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bda)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2000, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-noahs-ark-was-found/17821/52 "2000-03-14T02:50:00Z")
this noahs ark/mt ararat thing has been “talked about” for 30 years. was the site ever completely excavated? any independant conclusions drawn? latest dating tecqniques? soil strata analysis? “i am noah . . and this is my story” . . scratched in aramaic on the hull of this vessel? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2000, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-noahs-ark-was-found/17821/53 "2000-03-14T03:32:00Z")
bda, there is no site to excavate. They can’t even decide which mountain to look on! This _is_ a fun game to play, though. What if you awoke early on Easter morning and, looking out the bedroom window, saw a bunny pushing an egg with his nose. Would this convince you of the existance of the Easter Bunny? Huh? Well? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mapache](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58956e/32.png) [@Mapache](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mapache)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2000, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-noahs-ark-was-found/17821/54 "2000-03-14T06:43:00Z")
I’ve been waiting for a chance to jump into this ever since the Problems with Noah thread went away. I’m an old sailor; I’ve crossed an ocean or two, built a few boats, seen an occasional storm (never a 40-days-and-nights one though) and I’m something of a (self-educated, amature) marine engineer. Noah’s Ark (a) could never have been built (b)if it had been, it wouldn’t have floated for more than a few hours and © if it miraculously had floated it wouldn’t have supported two of every critter for a year. If anyone is interested, I’ll be glad to back up all the above claims in some detail. I suppose that if it said in the Bible that someone built a Boeing 747 out of adobe bricks and powered it with hamsters running in wheels, some Xians would be calculating how many elephants would fit inside, but most people would suspect that it wouldn’t fly very well. The Ark is about as reasonable as an engineering project. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2000, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-noahs-ark-was-found/17821/55 "2000-03-14T13:06:00Z")
Why pick on such a trivial bit? Why not take the hypothetical all the way? Suppose the sky parted and a big golden voice spoke so that every human being on the planet heard that voice in their own language, and that voice spoke the Ten Commandments to all humankind at the same moment, around the world? What would non-believers say? Look, it’s fairly simple. IF THERE IS A GOD, then it’s obvious that He doesn’t want any actual, undisputable evidence found of His existence. We haven’t even found very much circumstantial or inferential evidence – Joseph’s coat or the Ark of the Covenant, or David’s sling or whatever. In fact, there’s dispute whether David even existed (although a discovery of an artifact about ten years ago that refers to the House of David certainly implies the Davidic kingship existed). So, IF THERE IS A GOD, it’s clear that He doesn’t want us to have evidence thereof, and we aint gonna find any. IF THERE IS A GOD, it’s fairly clear that He wants us to base our actions and beliefs on our love of Him and of our fellow humans, not on scientific evidence. IF THERE IS NO GOD, of course, then there’s no evidence to be found. End of story. So this hypothetic is silly. The finding of the wreck of a huge ark would still be circumstantial, and would prove nothing to those who don’t want to believe (as has been mentioned several times) and would prove everything (albeit wrongly!) to those who do. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2000, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-noahs-ark-was-found/17821/56 "2000-03-14T14:03:00Z")
I have to say, coming into this after more than 50 messages have been posted, how silly this whole thing looks from Patrick’s side. Of course, he will accuse me of being an anti-religious whoknowswhat, but I’m used to that instead of actual discussion from him by now. Anyway, Patrick posts a hypothetical and then gets upset when people don’t answer the way he wants them to (to the point of insulting them for doing so). Yet he ignores the other responses, like the one talking about all the evidence found for evolution and the ones about previous flood myths. He doesn’t want to deal with this. He _just_ wants to deal with his story and have people interpret it his way. Frankly, I find the whole thing a bit ridiculous. Patrick: If you’re going to post a question, don’t get all pissed off when people respond in a way you don’t want them to. Fercryingoutloud, this is Great Debates! ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2000, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-noahs-ark-was-found/17821/57 "2000-03-14T15:08:00Z")
Welcome, Mapache. Great first post! Esprix * * * [Ask the Gay Guy!](http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001376.html) ---
**Author:** ![Nen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Nen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nen)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2000, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-noahs-ark-was-found/17821/58 "2000-03-14T16:02:00Z")
This is another bump in hopes of eliciting a response (pashley, see post dated 03-13-2000 at 5:43PM). Mapache, I am curious about the information you have to offer. Please present it. ---
**Author:** ![Iago](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Iago](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iago)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2000, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-noahs-ark-was-found/17821/59 "2000-03-14T16:04:00Z")
**Mapache** , I’m quite interested in hearing from you further. Is it a matter of displacement vs. volume using the supplied dimensions for the ark? Or a construction material problem? I’m not challenging you, I’m interested to hear the engineering problems with the ark as it is traditionally conceived of. * * * I done run for president. Didn’t win, though. ---
**Author:** ![pashley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e0b2c6/32.png) [@pashley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pashley)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2000, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-noahs-ark-was-found/17821/60 "2000-03-14T16:27:00Z")
Nen: > [@](#): > > So it is feasible, by your own admission, that a boat could be found under the circumstances you have delineated and have nothing to do with the biblical tale. It is possible that such a discovery would lend some credit to the existence of Noah’s Ark; however, it is also possible that it is a boat with no biblical correlation and the tale of Noah’s Ark could be fictious. Do you concur with the latter possibility or do you wish to retract some of your prior statements? No, I could go with that, but why? I’m willing to admit that the parameter I posted would not PROVE that it is the ark of Noah, however, it is **reasonable** to say it is, based on the description in the Bible. * * * Patrick Ashley “For those who believe, no evidence is necessary; for those who don’t believe, no evidence is enough.” -Unknown [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-noahs-ark-was-found/17821.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-noahs-ark-was-found/17821.md?page=4)