# What if nobody bets on the winning horse? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 14, 2014, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-nobody-bets-on-the-winning-horse/693106 "2014-07-14T21:31:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-nobody-bets-on-the-winning-horse/693106/1 "2014-07-14T21:31:43Z")
Unlikely for sure. But what if no one bet on the winner of the horse race? What happens to the money in the win pool? Even more far fetched, but what if nobody bet on the first 4 horses that came in the money? What happens to the money in the win/place/show/quinella/perfecta/trifecta/superfecta pools? I’ve been to races where the super paid out on 1/2/3/ALL. How could it pay ALL/ALL/ALL/ALL? Would everyone get their two bucks back? Would the track/state forfeit it’s cut on a race like this? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-nobody-bets-on-the-winning-horse/693106/2 "2014-07-14T22:10:49Z")
Book keeps all of the race handle that isn’t paid off on winning bets. In both of your cases, they’d keep all money bet on the winning horse or the winning 4. It’s not a parlor game or played by kindergarten rules. Bet wrong, you lose - pretty much no matter how bizarre the outcome. Like, who would have bet that a starting catcher would hit a grand slam… and have the starting pitcher hit a matching slam in the next inning? Never happened until yesterday. So it’s possible, although very unlikely, that a winning horse would have no bets. I’d bet that having even two horses place with no bets would be a vanishingly rare occurrence. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-nobody-bets-on-the-winning-horse/693106/3 "2014-07-14T22:32:37Z")
A common phenomenon in horse racing is just betting the longshot. So it is unlikely that even a horse that has rarely seen a finish line and has a 300 pound jockey will finish in the money, but when he does, it will be a 100-1 payout or something like that. Things happen in races all the time, horses bump, jockeys make mistakes, horse gets a cramp or pulls a muscle, when it does, someone still wins and it could be that 80-1 shot that your $5 bet brings you $400. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-nobody-bets-on-the-winning-horse/693106/4 "2014-07-14T22:57:16Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Book keeps all of the race handle that isn’t paid off on winning bets. In both of your cases, they’d keep all money bet on the winning horse or the winning 4. You’re probably right, but is that actually written in the law by the gaming commission? While my scenarios are quite ridiculous, they’re still possible. There must be a rule set in place. Why then do they pay out when nobody bets a proper superfecta? I’ve seen All/1/2/3 etc. on several super outcomes. And there are races such as the twin tri and the tri-super where the pool get’s carried over. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-nobody-bets-on-the-winning-horse/693106/5 "2014-07-14T23:00:14Z")
Moved to the Game Room. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-nobody-bets-on-the-winning-horse/693106/6 "2014-07-14T23:26:27Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > I’ve been to races where the super paid out on 1/2/3/ALL. How could it pay ALL/ALL/ALL/ALL? Would everyone get their two bucks back? Would the track/state forfeit it’s cut on a race like this? of course this is just MT, just because google found it first… but from [mtrules.org](http://mtrules.org) … (9) If no tickets are sold on the winning combination of the superfecta sweepstakes, then the net pool shall be divided into two separate pools. Seventy percent of the net pool shall be paid into a pool known as the jackpot, and carried over to the next regularly scheduled superfecta sweepstakes race. The remaining thirty percent of the net pool shall be paid into a pool known as the superfecta consolation pool, and this pool equally divided among those ticket holders who correctly selected the first three finishers in exact order. If no ticket has been sold correctly selecting the first three finishers in exact order, then the superfecta consolation pool shall be equally divided among those ticket holders who correctly selected the first two finishers in exact order. If no ticket has been sold correctly selecting the first two finishers in exact order, then the superfecta consolation pool shall be paid to those ticket holders who correctly selected the winning horse. In the event no ticket has been sold correctly selecting the winning horse to finish first, then the entire superfecta sweepstakes gross pool (excluding any monies carried over from previous superfecta sweepstakes race) shall be paid into the pool known as the jackpot. The reason for the rule may be to prevent the super trifecta turning into a “no one ever wins” lottery…so that existing lotteries do not fail due to competition, especially as its unfair and unreasonable for that competing lottery to be a “no one ever wins” one. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2014, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-nobody-bets-on-the-winning-horse/693106/7 "2014-07-15T00:01:00Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > You’re probably right, but is that actually written in the law by the gaming commission? > While my scenarios are quite ridiculous, they’re still possible. There must be a rule set in place. > > Why then do they pay out when nobody bets a proper superfecta? I’ve seen All/1/2/3 etc. on several super outcomes. And there are races such as the twin tri and the tri-super where the pool get’s carried over. Overall, you are writing as if from some position of innate “fairness” or “equality” like a board game. That doesn’t exist in betting. You (and the crowd) make your bets, and if you make correct bets, you win; if not, the book wins. If the crowd bets so bizarrely as to produce no payoffs, the book wins big. Simple as that; no special rule needed. It occurred to me that you might be thinking more along the lines of lotteries, where a certain number of winners have to be produced, so there are endless “and if, and if” rules. But sports and race betting are simple. Win or lose. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2014, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-nobody-bets-on-the-winning-horse/693106/8 "2014-07-15T01:21:09Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > A common phenomenon in horse racing is just betting the longshot. So it is unlikely that even a horse that has rarely seen a finish line and has a 300 pound jockey will finish in the money, but when he does, it will be a 100-1 payout or something like that. Things happen in races all the time, horses bump, jockeys make mistakes, horse gets a cramp or pulls a muscle, when it does, someone still wins and it could be that 80-1 shot that your $5 bet brings you $400. From Guys and Dolls [QUOTE=Sky Masterson] One of these days in your travels, a guy is going to show you a brand-new deck of cards on which the seal is not yet broken. Then this guy is going to offer to bet you that he can make the jack of spades jump out of this brand-new deck of cards and squirt cider in your ear. But, son, do not accept this bet, because as sure as you stand there, you’re going to wind up with an ear full of cider. [/Quote] ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2014, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-nobody-bets-on-the-winning-horse/693106/9 "2014-07-15T01:36:24Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > no special rule needed. You are aware that I’m talking about legal, state sanctioned para-mutual track betting, not betting betting with a bookie or against a casino sportbook? I’m willing to bet (:D) there is a rule/law for these scenarios. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2014, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-nobody-bets-on-the-winning-horse/693106/10 "2014-07-15T01:53:27Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > You are aware that I’m talking about legal, state sanctioned para-mutual track betting, not betting betting with a bookie or against a casino sportbook? I’m willing to bet (:D) there is a rule/law for these scenarios. I’ll take that bet. I was using generic terms - a book is a book, whether Greasy Sammy or New York State Gaming makes it. And a losing bet is a losing bet. What kind of law should exist to redistribute losing bets? The crowd bets, a longshot with no money on him wins, the crowd loses, the book keeps the handle. Again, you’re trying to impose some sense of board-game, playground-rules “fairness.” I would be very surprised to find even a collateral rule along such lines in any form of horse racing. Kind of like the rule that if your roommate commits suicide, you get all A’s that semester? ---
**Author:** ![karin2014](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8baadc/32.png) [@karin2014](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/karin2014)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2014, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-nobody-bets-on-the-winning-horse/693106/11 "2014-07-15T05:59:51Z")
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**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2014, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-nobody-bets-on-the-winning-horse/693106/12 "2014-07-15T06:17:31Z")
Karin2014 reported for spam. ---
**Author:** ![AppallingGael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9bd4f/32.png) [@AppallingGael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AppallingGael)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-nobody-bets-on-the-winning-horse/693106/13 "2014-07-17T15:43:34Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > A common phenomenon in horse racing is just betting the longshot. So it is unlikely that even a horse that has rarely seen a finish line and has a 300 pound jockey will finish in the money, but when he does, it will be a 100-1 payout or something like that. Things happen in races all the time, horses bump, jockeys make mistakes, horse gets a cramp or pulls a muscle, when it does, someone still wins and it could be that 80-1 shot that your $5 bet brings you $400. Often, though, the tracks fear that sort of volatility and avoid it by lumping all the “no-chancers” together, and maybe you’ll be paid off at 30-1 if any of several longshot horses win. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-nobody-bets-on-the-winning-horse/693106/14 "2014-07-17T16:33:02Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I’ll take that bet. You lose. You might be well advised to stay away from parimutuel wagering. The philosophy behind parimutuel wagering is that the bettors are betting _against each other_, and that the track, to the greatest extent possible, should be indifferent to the race outcome. Pursuant to this philosophy, one finds in the [adopted rules of the Illinois Racing Board](https://www2.illinois.gov/irb/Pages/Rules.aspx): > [@](#): > > \*\*Section 301.20 (b) \*\* > The net win pool shall be distributed as a single price pool to winning wagers in the following precedence, based upon the official order of finish: > > 1. To those whose selection finished first; but if there are no such wagers, then > 2. To those whose selection finished second; but if there are no such wagers, then > 3. To those whose selection finished third; but if there are no such wagers, then > 4. The entire pool shall be refunded on win wagers for that contest. Similar rules exist for place and show wagering. > [@AppallingGael](#): > > Often, though, the tracks fear that sort of volatility and avoid it by lumping all the “no-chancers” together, and maybe you’ll be paid off at 30-1 if any of several longshot horses win. That was done historically only when races had more than 12 entrants. Mechanical wagering apparatus often allowed betting on numbers only up through 12, so program numbers 12 and higher would be lumped together as “the field” and all bet as 12. This has changed in at least some states; for example the Kentucky Derby allows wagering on any horse 1 through 20. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-nobody-bets-on-the-winning-horse/693106/15 "2014-07-17T19:08:45Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > You lose. You might be well advised to stay away from parimutuel wagering. Eh. LIke so many things I once knew, I was working from outdated info. This gettin’ old thing is a bitch.