# What if Russia uses Tactical Nukes in Ukraine to take out Kyiv? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [March 2, 2022, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-russia-uses-tactical-nukes-in-ukraine-to-take-out-kyiv/960325 "2022-03-02T04:16:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-russia-uses-tactical-nukes-in-ukraine-to-take-out-kyiv/960325/21 "2022-03-03T16:07:01Z")
I’m not suggesting Putin would risk nuclear annihilation using tactical nukes if that’s a real risk, but his goal was to wrap this up in a few weeks, and that’s clearly not going to happen. As Ukraine gets more advanced weapons from the West, and as Russia gets bogged down with supply chain issues, it may be months and tens of thousands of dead on both sides before Ukraine capitulates… assuming they ever do. Putin may be looking for a quick and dirty way to end this before things at home get even worse than they already are. What I suggested is that tactical nukes would speed things up for Russia, but I think that crosses a line he’s not willing ready to cross… yet. As far as the use of tactical nukes making Putin even more of a pariah on the world stage, I’m not sure how much more of a pariah he can be, and I really doubt at this point that he cares what anybody thinks. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-russia-uses-tactical-nukes-in-ukraine-to-take-out-kyiv/960325/22 "2022-03-03T16:12:50Z")
> [@XT](#): > > We are talking about the unprovoked use of nuclear weapons. Sorry, but I think we can speculate with some degree of certainty what both China and India, especially India, would do, as well as what the rest of the world would do. I don’t think you really are understanding the level of the line that would be crossed if Russia nuked a Ukrainian city, or any other city, unprovoked. Indeed, the use of nuclear weapons could cause honest-to-God panic. “We have to try to nuke them before they nuke us” is what might come flying out of Pandora’s box. > [@DSeid](#): > > In terms of response would there be and should there be a different response to a thermobaric attack of 30 to 40 tons force equivalent destroying multiple city blocks and killing multiple thousands, and a tactical nuke of the same force and effect, and a barrage of other “ conventional” weapons of the same total destructive impact? I sincerely doubt Russia possesses a nuclear weapon with such little yield. For all the odd panic about thermobaric weapons, they’re just bombs. A fuel/air explosive is not a new thing, and it’s just a bomb. The USA used them quite liberally in Vietnam, ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-russia-uses-tactical-nukes-in-ukraine-to-take-out-kyiv/960325/23 "2022-03-03T16:17:37Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > As far as the use of tactical nukes making Putin even more of a pariah on the world stage, I’m not sure how much more of a pariah he can be, and I really doubt at this point that he cares what anybody thinks. Oh, there are definitely more depths to the hole he could dig downward. Currently, 30+ countries are still abstaining from a non-binding UN vote to censure Russia over its invasion, and at least 2 very large economic powers (India and China) aren’t even talking about sanctions at this point. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-russia-uses-tactical-nukes-in-ukraine-to-take-out-kyiv/960325/24 "2022-03-03T16:33:42Z")
I’d bet China and India will continue to walk the fence for however long they need to. They can stay neutral and secretly support Russia and the oligarchs in a number of ways. And do you think Putin cares what the UN says? As long as Russia is on the UNSC they can veto any action the rest of the world might want to take against them. What can the UN do to punish him? What can any world body do to punish him without having him arrested, which is never going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-russia-uses-tactical-nukes-in-ukraine-to-take-out-kyiv/960325/25 "2022-03-03T16:39:00Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > I’d bet China and India will continue to walk the fence for however long they need to. In the face of nuclear weapons use against Kyiv?? I mean, I dislike China more than anyone on this board, but even I don’t think that would happen. As for India…no way would they tolerate that. They actually are a democracy, and if their government tried to continue this after such an event they would be out. Hell, a lot of Indians are concerned by the stance as it is. Again, I don’t think you are really understanding how serious it would be if Russia nuked a city unprovoked. > [@dolphinboy](#): > > And do you think Putin cares what the UN says? That depends. Currently, China is trading normally with Russia, and they have even expanded future trade and have been pretty close to countering the west. India is not supporting sanctions and, again, continues to trade with Russia. If either of those countries changed policy and did start to do sanctions, and the west continued to up the sanctions (as they would if a nuke was used…hell, it would be an embargo of all Russian goods and services and any nation trying to continue to trade would probably be hit with the same), the Russian economy, already shaky NOW with what’s going on and even though several countries are still trading with them normally, would collapse. What Putin thinks of the UN is irrelevant to his entire economy completely melting down. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-russia-uses-tactical-nukes-in-ukraine-to-take-out-kyiv/960325/26 "2022-03-03T16:41:42Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > a siege of Kyiv that puts millions at risk of death by starvation. I wonder if we’ll be seeing that, plus a massive artillery and rocket bombardment, in a few weeks or so. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-russia-uses-tactical-nukes-in-ukraine-to-take-out-kyiv/960325/27 "2022-03-03T16:42:30Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I sincerely doubt Russia possesses a nuclear weapon with such little yield. Most experts have no doubt that Russia has such tactical nuclear weapons, designed to be used in battlefield conditions. That’s the premise of the OP: using one of those. And indeed not much different in level of destruction between a barrage of “convential”, a large thermobaric, or a small tactical nuke. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-russia-uses-tactical-nukes-in-ukraine-to-take-out-kyiv/960325/28 "2022-03-03T16:45:02Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > And indeed not much different in level of destruction between a barrage of “convential”, a large thermobaric, or a small tactical nuke. From a purely destructive perspective no, not much difference. From the public perspective, I’d say it’s a huge difference. Though the sheer loss of life would also negatively factor in Russia’s image in any of those cases. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-russia-uses-tactical-nukes-in-ukraine-to-take-out-kyiv/960325/29 "2022-03-03T16:50:45Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > > [@XT](#): > > > > We are talking about the unprovoked use of nuclear weapons. Sorry, but I think we can speculate with some degree of certainty what both China and India, especially India, would do, as well as what the rest of the world would do. I don’t think you really are understanding the level of the line that would be crossed if Russia nuked a Ukrainian city, or any other city, unprovoked. > > Indeed, the use of nuclear weapons could cause honest-to-God panic. “We have to try to nuke them before they nuke us” is what might come flying out of Pandora’s box. > > > [@DSeid](#): > > > > In terms of response would there be and should there be a different response to a thermobaric attack of 30 to 40 tons force equivalent destroying multiple city blocks and killing multiple thousands, and a tactical nuke of the same force and effect, and a barrage of other “ conventional” weapons of the same total destructive impact? > > I sincerely doubt Russia possesses a nuclear weapon with such little yield. For all the odd panic about thermobaric weapons, they’re just bombs. A fuel/air explosive is not a new thing, and it’s just a bomb. The USA used them quite liberally in Vietnam, For reference, a tactical nuke like the Russian OTR-21 Tochka has a yield of 100 kilotons (about 5-10 Hiroshimas). Several orders of magnitude larger than a Daisy Cutter or either Parents of all Bombs. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-russia-uses-tactical-nukes-in-ukraine-to-take-out-kyiv/960325/30 "2022-03-03T17:29:47Z")
[For reference](https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/02/america-isnt-ready-for-russias-battlefield-nuclear-weapons/) > [@](#): > > battlefield nuclear weapons are primarily short-range (less than 650 miles) and low yield (.1 to 20 kilotons). The Russians [maintain an estimated 3,000-6,000 intra-theater nuclear weapons](https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/russia%E2%80%99s-tactical-nuclear-weapon-stockpile-jaw-droppingly-large-197310) That’s down to 0.1 kiloton. The point of them is their relatively low yield. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-russia-uses-tactical-nukes-in-ukraine-to-take-out-kyiv/960325/31 "2022-03-03T17:35:40Z")
For perspective, a 0.1 kiloton tactical nuke is equivalent to about 9 MOAB bombs. So a big blast indeed, but not that much in the bigger scale of things. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-russia-uses-tactical-nukes-in-ukraine-to-take-out-kyiv/960325/32 "2022-03-03T17:45:33Z")
Russia’s thermobaric bombs are bigger. One is 44 tons. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-russia-uses-tactical-nukes-in-ukraine-to-take-out-kyiv/960325/33 "2022-03-04T03:12:54Z")
> [@XT](#): > > If either of those countries changed policy and did start to do sanctions, and the west continued to up the sanctions (as they would if a nuke was used…hell, it would be an embargo of all Russian goods and services and any nation trying to continue to trade would probably be hit with the same), the Russian economy, already shaky NOW with what’s going on and even though several countries are still trading with them normally, would collapse. I hope (but am not optimistic) that the Russians actually shelling the largest nuclear power plant in Europe and causing fires might be enough for China and India to get off the fence. If tomorrow, both of these countries announced that they are joining the rest of the world in the strongest possible economic sanctions, that would be the end. I predict that Putin would be “convinced” by someone close to him in the strongest possible way. I wonder if at this point there are diplomatic channels humming, with many countries asking if India and China would please save the entire world from complete annihilation. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-russia-uses-tactical-nukes-in-ukraine-to-take-out-kyiv/960325/34 "2022-03-04T03:17:22Z")
Zelenskiy has accused Russia of ‘nuclear terrorism’ Boris Johnson has said the reckless actions of President Putin could now directly threaten the safety of all of Europe. As the saying goes “shit is getting real” I plan on stocking up on water and canned goods tomorrow and potentially bugging out to a more remote location on the weekend… ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-russia-uses-tactical-nukes-in-ukraine-to-take-out-kyiv/960325/35 "2022-03-04T03:24:50Z")
How much food can you take to a more remote location? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-russia-uses-tactical-nukes-in-ukraine-to-take-out-kyiv/960325/36 "2022-03-04T03:26:38Z")
Is the video CNN of showing attacks at the power plant current, or are they reshowing the same video? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-russia-uses-tactical-nukes-in-ukraine-to-take-out-kyiv/960325/37 "2022-03-04T03:44:21Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > How much food can you take to a more remote location? Probably 6 weeks worth. Have own water on site, shelter (5th wheel), lots of firewood. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-russia-uses-tactical-nukes-in-ukraine-to-take-out-kyiv/960325/38 "2022-03-04T03:48:41Z")
Just you? What does it mean, “5th wheel”? One of the problems I see with bugging out is someone trying to take your stuff from you. I didn’t question the plans of a guy, an off duty cop who was the security guard where I worked. He was going to take refuge with his family at an in law’s farm and grow food. I didn’t like the guy very much, so I didn’t ask him how he would defend a farm producing food for five people when other people suffering from a disaster decided to take it away from him. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-russia-uses-tactical-nukes-in-ukraine-to-take-out-kyiv/960325/39 "2022-03-04T03:52:21Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > What does it mean, “5th wheel”? Large trailer with a special hitch. And I have neighbors near this location who are hunters and who would not take kindly to anyone we didn’t know coming to try to take anything. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-russia-uses-tactical-nukes-in-ukraine-to-take-out-kyiv/960325/40 "2022-03-04T03:53:52Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Russia’s thermobaric bombs are bigger. One is 44 tons. That’s less than .1 KT. That’s .044 KT. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I plan on stocking up on water and canned goods tomorrow and potentially bugging out to a more remote location on the weekend… I’m stocking up too. Shit is getting TOO real. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-russia-uses-tactical-nukes-in-ukraine-to-take-out-kyiv/960325.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-russia-uses-tactical-nukes-in-ukraine-to-take-out-kyiv/960325.md?page=3)