# What if Satan said... "I'm Sorry" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 10, 2011, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-said-im-sorry/570929 "2011-02-10T19:05:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-said-im-sorry/570929/101 "2011-02-18T21:50:54Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Other parts of the bible refer to the old serpent as satan. SOme people have taken this to mean that the serpent was satan. Which parts? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-said-im-sorry/570929/102 "2011-02-18T21:53:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I don’t know what **Damuri** is, but, bear in mind, the “That’s not in the Bible!” argument only gets traction with Protestants. Catholics, even after Vatican II, acknowledge the validity of extra-Biblical traditions. (I don’t know about the Orthodox.) I went to church as a child but I haven’t been in decades. Maybe my “impression” of God isn’t biblically based. I got two really large lessons out of church. Treat your neighbor as you would have them treat you (hence my affinity to John Rawls’ philosophy) and God loves you. As a kid that’s pretty much all they teach you about God. I can read the bible as well as anyone but I haven’t in a while, it seems like others have. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-said-im-sorry/570929/103 "2011-02-18T21:55:02Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Which parts? I think its in revelations. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-said-im-sorry/570929/104 "2011-02-18T22:03:29Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I think its in revelations. I think you were correct when you posted this: > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I don’t really feel qualified to argue theology with people who seem to have spent a lot of time thinking about this stuff. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-said-im-sorry/570929/105 "2011-02-18T22:49:17Z")
Revelation 12:9: “And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2011, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-said-im-sorry/570929/106 "2011-02-19T01:28:06Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Revelation 12:9: “And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” So there is a serpent at the beginning of the book, and another serpent near the end-the same serpent? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2011, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-said-im-sorry/570929/107 "2011-02-19T19:44:28Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Depends on what you mean by omniscient and being omnipotent doesn’t mean you have to exercise that omnipotence, does it? I’d argue that when it comes to omnipotence, simply having it means you are in control of a situation. Choosing not to use it is still controlling the situation; you’re still forcing an outcome. It’s still your responsibility, your decision. ---
**Author:** ![Brian\_o](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@Brian\_o](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brian_o)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-said-im-sorry/570929/108 "2011-03-01T02:42:00Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > This is not in the Bible. Isaiah 14:12 “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!” It is in the KJV. As for his sin: How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations! For you have said in your heart: “I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God [angels]; I will also sit [rule] on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north [God’s government]; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.” Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, to the lowest depths of the Pit. (Isaiah 14:12-15) Can he be forgiven? Forgiveness only comes when the one offended offers it. So therefore, no. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-said-im-sorry/570929/109 "2011-03-01T03:21:23Z")
> [@Brian\_o](#): > > Isaiah 14:12 > “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!” > > It is in the KJV. > As for his sin: > How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations! For you have said in your heart: “I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God [angels]; I will also sit [rule] on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north [God’s government]; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.” Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, to the lowest depths of the Pit. (Isaiah 14:12-15) > Can he be forgiven? Forgiveness only comes when the one offended offers it. So therefore, no. This thread isn’t about Lucifer-it is about _Satan_. ---
**Author:** ![lexan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/73ab20/32.png) [@lexan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lexan)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-said-im-sorry/570929/110 "2011-03-01T07:11:31Z")
> [@Brian\_o](#): > > Isaiah 14:12 > “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!” > > It is in the KJV. > As for his sin: > How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations! For you have said in your heart: “I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God [angels]; I will also sit [rule] on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north [God’s government]; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.” Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, to the lowest depths of the Pit. (Isaiah 14:12-15) That’s directed against a human ruler. It’s not ambiguous either; the whole passage is preceded by: “You shall take up this taunt against the King of Babylon:…” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-said-im-sorry/570929/111 "2011-03-01T14:04:27Z")
> [@Brian\_o](#): > > Isaiah 14:12 > “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!” > > It is in the KJV. > As for his sin: > How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations! For you have said in your heart: “I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God [angels]; I will also sit [rule] on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north [God’s government]; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.” Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, to the lowest depths of the Pit. (Isaiah 14:12-15) > Can he be forgiven? Forgiveness only comes when the one offended offers it. So therefore, no. As has been stated, this is a passage about the King of Babylon. The word translated as “Lucifer” is actually a Latin translation of a Greek word for the planet, Venus. In this passage, the King of Babylon is being compared to tehj “morning star,” which is briefly ascendent in the moring until it is subsumed by the light of the sun (a metaphor for God in this passage). The passage has nothing to do with Satan. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-said-im-sorry/570929.md?page=5)