# What if Satan wins? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 23, 2001, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-wins/62955 "2001-04-23T02:57:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2001, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-wins/62955/1 "2001-04-23T02:57:17Z")
The doctrin of most Judeo-Christian religions is that there will be a final battle between Satan and his demons and God and his angels. Prophecy says God wins. But what happens if Satan wins? What happens to God and the angels? Even worse, what happens to us? Would Satan want us to worship him, or would he simply destroy us all. What would Satan do if he won the final battle? ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2001, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-wins/62955/2 "2001-04-23T03:04:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pkbites \* > \*\*What would Satan do if he won the final battle? \*\* Cash in Jesus’ chips faster than a New York minute. Just a guess. Given the highly improbable nature of such an event actually occuring, I’ll worry more about uncomfortable dryness in the meantime. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2001, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-wins/62955/3 "2001-04-23T04:22:55Z")
What if there is a war and nobody shows up? Or what if there never is a war (which is my guess). What if Satan is just a big scaredie cat? What if a frog had wings…Sorry that is for another thread. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2001, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-wins/62955/4 "2001-04-23T04:31:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pkbites \* > \*\*The doctrin of most Judeo-Christian religions is that there will be a final battle between Satan and his demons and God and his angels. Umm, “Judeo-Christian Religions” include precisely two religions: Judaism and Christianity. In Judaism, Satan works for God as sort of a quality-assurance manager, so he’s in no real position to revolt. I guess what you’re talking about is Christianity, which frankly, I can’t believe is _tht_ Dualistic. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2001, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-wins/62955/5 "2001-04-23T04:41:11Z")
Yeah, if Christian theology is to believed (and if it isn’t, then why are we even talking about this?) God is, well, God–omnipotent, omniscient, omni-pretty-much-whatever-he-damn-well-pleases–and Satan is just an unomnianything ex-flunky with delusions of grandeur. The phrase “snowballs in hell” springs to mind here. Possibly the question would make more sense if posed about Ahura Mazda and Ahriman or something; I don’t really know much about Zoroastrianism beyond what I read in encyclopedias, though. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2001, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-wins/62955/6 "2001-04-23T05:16:27Z")
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**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2001, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-wins/62955/7 "2001-04-23T05:29:34Z")
_What_ war? If God is truly omnipotent, then he can dismiss the entirety of any attack in an instant with the merest thought. If I, a mere mortal, can figure this out, then Satan must have figured this out a _hell_ of a long time ago. Unless, of course, someone wasn’t allowing that thought to enter his mind. Any guesses as to who might be trying to set Satan up as a puppet villian? ---
**Author:** ![MikeG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikeg/32/4329_2.png) [@MikeG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeG)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2001, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-wins/62955/8 "2001-04-23T06:10:31Z")
Then we’ll get to hear some music other than Eljer and Liszt. ---
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2001, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-wins/62955/9 "2001-04-23T06:39:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MikeG \* > \*\*Then we’ll get to hear some music other than Eljer and Liszt. \*\* Yeah, but it will all be Queen, Mike. \* - gratuitous Pratchett reference ---
**Author:** ![hazel-rah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/73ab20/32.png) [@hazel-rah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hazel-rah)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2001, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-wins/62955/10 "2001-04-23T07:08:45Z")
What if Satan already won? ---
**Author:** ![JasonDean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f04885/32.png) [@JasonDean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JasonDean)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2001, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-wins/62955/11 "2001-04-23T07:49:20Z")
Well this sort of brings us to the problem of evil. This is an idea that some ancient (greek?) philosopher came up with some 2500 years ago to show that an all good, all knowing, all powerful god (ie the Christian God) can not logically exist if we except that evil exists. With reference to Satan, I think the interesting question is not what happens if he wins, but why does he exist in the first place? Why did God let him come into existence. Did he not forsee it? Then he is not all knowing. Was he unable to prevent it? Then he is not all powerful. Did he want Satan to exist? Then he is not all good. Now I know all the religious types out there will come back with the free will argument but that is a weak argument that can’t be applied to God because he has no free will. If he did he would not be all knowing. Also he can’t be testing man because that would be sadistic (ie not all good) seeing how as he created us the way we are. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2001, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-wins/62955/12 "2001-04-23T08:55:49Z")
The question isn’t “What if Satan wins?” since, by definition, he can’t. The question should be “How much or how little collateral damage will there be?” Human souls going to hell, of course, are the collateral damage. Of course, this assumes a very literal translations of Revelations, as well as a more Fundamental take on Christianity in general. ---
**Author:** ![jack\_ss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c77e96/32.png) [@jack\_ss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jack_ss)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2001, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-wins/62955/13 "2001-04-23T10:10:16Z")
Well, if ther is such a war, I will be proven wrong to my wife, parents, in-laws and everyone else I have told that I don’t believe in the clown. (Satan, that is). On the other hand, I won’t have to take all the responsibilty for the times I’ve been a prick. You see, it wasn’t originally my idea, I was tempted by dark forces, lead astray. _The devil made me do it_. Lots of christians believe that after the battle of Armegeddon, the Devil will be bound for a thousand years and Christ will rule the earth. If the forces of evil win, maybe God will be bound for a thousand years. I wonder, will life be one long call to technical support? Will I have to teach people how to right-click and not write “click” on their desk-tops? Yeah, maybe he _has_ already won… ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2001, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-wins/62955/14 "2001-04-24T01:04:37Z")
SPOOFE Bo Diddly wrote: > [@](#): > > Human souls going to hell, of course, are the collateral damage. Wait a minute … according to Revelation, in the final battle, Jesus is supposed to utterly destroy Satan. If Satan isn’t around anymore, he won’t be running things in Hell, right? So … would Hell continue to be as “hellish” without Satan? ---
**Author:** ![choosybeggar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@choosybeggar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choosybeggar)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2001, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-wins/62955/15 "2001-04-24T06:03:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zenster \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by pkbites \* > > \*\*What would Satan do if he won the final battle? \*\* > > Cash in Jesus’ chips faster than a New York minute. > > Just a guess. > Given the highly improbable nature of such an event actually occuring, I’ll worry more about uncomfortable dryness in the meantime. \*\* And don’t forget about that not-so-fresh feeling. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2001, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-wins/62955/16 "2001-04-24T06:26:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by choosybeggar \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Zenster \* > > \*\* > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > \*Originally posted by pkbites \* > > > \*\*What would Satan do if he won the final battle? \*\* > > > > Cash in Jesus’ chips faster than a New York minute. > > > > Just a guess. > > Given the highly improbable nature of such an event actually occuring, I’ll worry more about uncomfortable dryness in the meantime. \*\* > > And don’t forget about that not-so-fresh feeling. \*\* But, everyone gets a kicky tattoo! BONUS! ---
**Author:** ![Remo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@Remo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Remo)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2001, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-wins/62955/17 "2001-04-24T06:32:48Z")
If Satan exists and he does win, I imagine it would be worse than living in Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union combined. Probably we would have to worship him or be destroyed. But what would Satan do with Hell? Keep it? If he wins then what is the point of having it? ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2001, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-wins/62955/18 "2001-04-24T06:36:14Z")
> [@](#): > > Wait a minute … according to Revelation, in the final battle, Jesus is supposed to utterly destroy Satan. “And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.” – [Revelation 20:10](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=REV+20:10&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on) Revelation sometimes talks about the [“second death”](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=REV+21:8&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=off) as the punishment for sinners, and also talks of “death and Hades” (or “death and hell”) being “thrown into the lake of fire…the second death” ([Rev. 20:14](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=REV+20:14&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=off)). But Revelation also uses language explicitly referring to eternal torment to describe the fate of both Satan (see above) and [human sinners](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=REV+14:9-11&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on). > [@](#): > > If Satan isn’t around anymore, he won’t be running things in Hell, right? So … would Hell continue to be as “hellish” without Satan? There seems little Biblical warrant for describing Satan as being in charge of Hell in the first place. In Revelation, Satan is described as being [bound](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=REV+20:1-3&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=off) during the Millennium (note that the final battle of good and evil appears to come _after_ the thousand years of Earthly paradise). Note also that [Rev. 14:9-11](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=REV+14:9-11&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on) describes sinners as being tormented “in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb”, not being tortured down in Hell by King Satan. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2001, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-wins/62955/19 "2001-04-24T06:51:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Remo \* > \*\*If Satan exists and he does win, I imagine it would be worse than living in Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union combined. Probably we would have to worship him or be destroyed. But what would Satan do with Hell? Keep it? If he wins then what is the point of having it? \*\* Everyone needs a summer home. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2001, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-wins/62955/20 "2001-04-24T07:07:18Z")
Given the standard description of Hell, I would think it would be more of a place to go in the winter. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-satan-wins/62955.md?page=2)