# What if somebody DID shoot Bigfoot?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-somebody-did-shoot-bigfoot/678708
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [January 13, 2014, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-somebody-did-shoot-bigfoot/678708 "2014-01-13T21:17:15Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2014, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-somebody-did-shoot-bigfoot/678708/21 "2014-01-14T00:58:07Z")
I believe that NY has a law against hunting “Champ”, the Lake Champlain lake monster, I think VT also has this but Canada does not. That sort of sets a precedent of hunting/killing creatures that are rumored to exist.
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### Author:  [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2014, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-somebody-did-shoot-bigfoot/678708/22 "2014-01-14T00:58:32Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#):
>
> I don’t think killing BigFoot is regulated by any Dept of Fish and Wildlife. Therefore, you can shoot and kill them all you want, as though they were sparrows or some other non-regulated animal.
Here in Maine, mammal species that are not explicitly listed as game species cannot be hunted legally. I think the rules are similar in Alaska, but I’m not sure about other states.
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2014, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-somebody-did-shoot-bigfoot/678708/23 "2014-01-14T01:13:21Z")
> [@kanicbird](#):
>
> I believe that NY has a law against hunting “Champ”, the Lake Champlain lake monster, I think VT also has this but Canada does not. That sort of sets a precedent of hunting/killing creatures that are rumored to exist.
> [@dstarfire](#):
>
> Endangered Species have to be explicitly declared to be subject to legal protection.
> [@kenobi\_65](#):
>
> Species have to be explicitly placed on the list to be covered by the [Endangered Species Act](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endangered_species_act), either by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, or the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration (though individuals or groups can petition those two agencies to place a species on the list). AFAICT, there’s no provision for protecting a hitherto-unknown creature, and it takes quite a lot of bureaucratic work to get a species onto the list.
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> If sasquatches exist, they’re surely very rare. Could you perhaps fall afoul of the Endangered Species Act? Is that based on an explicit list, or does it include standards by which a hitherto-unknown creature could be considered endangered?
This makes me wonder if any state has a law that generally prohibits the killing of an animal belonging to a previously unknown species. I think it could be assumed any such species must be relatively rare in order to have been undiscovered.
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### Author:  [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2014, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-somebody-did-shoot-bigfoot/678708/24 "2014-01-14T01:14:42Z")
> [@barbitu8](#):
>
> How can you get a bye for accidental shooting when the shooting was intentional? Perhaps some other defense is possible. But the real question in the OP is that if BigFoot really exists and is some form of homosapien or other thought to be extinct homo would that be murder? I saw on the National Geographic channel recently that it is hypothesized that a primitive homosapien tribe which migrated from Africa settled in a sparse area in southwest Asia, accounting for sightings in that area.
Well, if I am someplace where I am authorized to be hunting deer, and some idiot decides to prance through the area in a reasonably convincing deer costume, I bet I would not end up charged with anything serious if anything at all. So I think the human in bigfoot costume would be a similar situation.
Is what you are allowed to hunt defined by exclusion or inclusion? I think that’s where you’d get your answer, but in no event can I imagine the law defining a hitherto unknown species as human or even anything more special than any other large mammal.
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### Author:  [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2014, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-somebody-did-shoot-bigfoot/678708/25 "2014-01-14T02:38:12Z")
I wouldn’t assume Bigfoot wasn’t human. I’d think a DNA analysis would be performed. and that it might be able to determine that Bigfoot could interbreed with humans.
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### Author:  [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2014, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-somebody-did-shoot-bigfoot/678708/26 "2014-01-14T03:16:08Z")
In Skamania County, Washington, the entire county has been declared an official Bigfoot reserve. Killing Bigfoot in the county is a gross misdemeanor punishable by a fine up to $1,000 and may subject the guilty party to six months in jail. If DNA testing reveals the victim to be humanoid the DA will prosecute under existing homicide laws.
**[Big Foot Ordinance 1984-2 (PDF Warning.)](http://www.skamaniacounty.org/ordinance/Ord_1984-2.pdf)**
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### Author:  [@SeldomSeen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeldomSeen)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2014, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-somebody-did-shoot-bigfoot/678708/27 "2014-01-14T04:17:35Z")
It appears to call for a $10,000 fine and up to five years imprisonment:
\*\*
[Quote]
([http://gorgeguide.com/component/eventlist/details/38-bigfoot-bash-and-bounty.html](http://gorgeguide.com/component/eventlist/details/38-bigfoot-bash-and-bounty.html))\*\*
> [@](#):
>
> There are two county ordinances in place regarding Bigfoot. The first, number 69-01, dated April 1, 1969, reflects a fine of $10,000 and/or five years imprisonment for the wanton slaying of Yeti, Sasquatch, Bigfoot or “giant hairy ape”. The ordinance defining the complete boundaries of Skamania County as a “Sasquatch Refuge” was made law on April 16, 1984.
Nearby Whatcom County also has a [resolution on the books](http://www.co.whatcom.wa.us/council/1992/res/res1992-043.pdf) making _it_ a sasquatch reserve as well, but doesn’t seem to attach any penalty.
SS
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### Author:  [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2014, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-somebody-did-shoot-bigfoot/678708/28 "2014-01-14T06:06:19Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#):
>
> A classic if almost unknown novel in the U.S. with the [best paperback cover ever.](http://bookcoverarchive.com/images/books/you_shall_know_them.large.jpg) Ever.
(sorry for an off-topic post, but I just gotta say “Thanks”)
That really is the best book cover ever published !
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### Author:  [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2014, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-somebody-did-shoot-bigfoot/678708/29 "2014-01-14T13:49:37Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#):
>
> This makes me wonder if any state has a law that generally prohibits the killing of an animal belonging to a previously unknown species. I think it could be assumed any such species must be relatively rare in order to have been undiscovered.
I don’t think you can say that a previously unknown species is necessarily rare as it could be just hidden among a known species, similar and common enough that they are assumed to be the same as the known species till someone looks into it.
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### Author:  [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2014, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-somebody-did-shoot-bigfoot/678708/30 "2014-01-14T14:52:22Z")
> [@kanicbird](#):
>
> I don’t think you can say that a previously unknown species is necessarily rare as it could be just hidden among a known species, similar and common enough that they are assumed to be the same as the known species till someone looks into it.
So you’re saying… some of the scruffy-looking people wandering around downtown are really Bigfoots? I had no idea, but it all makes sense now.
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### Author:  [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2014, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-somebody-did-shoot-bigfoot/678708/31 "2014-01-14T15:10:25Z")
> [@kanicbird](#):
>
> I don’t think you can say that a previously unknown species is necessarily rare as it could be just hidden among a known species, similar and common enough that they are assumed to be the same as the known species till someone looks into it.
On Earth, in our present time, no large creature falls into such a category. They’ve all been very thoroughly explored.
You need to postulate a different species so similar that doctors or veterinarians or zoologists would never notice in a lifetime in practice (and not show up in DNA testing as well) yet be so divergent as to make it impossible for them to interbreed. That’s a high bar. Bigfoot certainly couldn’t clear it, not even in the pole vault.
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### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2014, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-somebody-did-shoot-bigfoot/678708/32 "2014-01-14T15:28:22Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#):
>
> On Earth, in our present time, no large creature falls into such a category. They’ve all been very thoroughly explored.
>
> You need to postulate a different species so similar that doctors or veterinarians or zoologists would never notice in a lifetime in practice (and not show up in DNA testing as well) yet be so divergent as to make it impossible for them to interbreed. That’s a high bar.
Actually, a [new species of tapir,](http://ens-newswire.com/2013/12/24/new-tapir-species-discovered-in-the-amazon/) the largest kind of animal in the New World tropics, was recently described. While somewhat rare, it may actually be rather widespread in Amazonia, and was well known to local people in the area it occurs. The first specimen was collected almost 100 years ago by Theodore Roosevelt. It was overlooked by zoologists due to its similarity to other tapirs, but once you know what to look for it can be recognized. Genetic testing and analysis of skeletal material demonstrated that it is a valid species.
The [African Forest Elephant](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest_elephant) was split as a separate species from the Savanna Elephant fairly recently. Zoologists had long recognized them as separate types, but didn’t think the differences rose to the level of different species.
The[Chacoan Peccary](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chacoan_peccary) was discovered in 1971. It’s fairly common where it occurs and was known to local people, but was overlooked by scientists because it was assumed to be one of the known species. It actually belongs to a completely different genus, and one long assumed to be extinct.
I wouldn’t rule out future research discovering other “cryptic” species of large mammals, especially in remote areas where there has been little research.
Of course, none of this applies to unknown hominid species.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2014, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-somebody-did-shoot-bigfoot/678708/33 "2014-01-14T15:31:15Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#):
>
> I wouldn’t assume Bigfoot wasn’t human. I’d think a DNA analysis would be performed. and that it might be able to determine that Bigfoot could interbreed with humans.
That’s an interesting point, but it still wouldn’t prevent us from defining BF as non-human. Coyotes and wolves can and do interbreed, but are not considered the same species. You’d have to establish that BF interbreeds with modern humans on a regular basis to convince the scientific community that the two populations are the same species.
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### Author:  [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2014, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-somebody-did-shoot-bigfoot/678708/34 "2014-01-14T15:34:55Z")
That’s fascinating news. It’s fun to always have surprises out there.
But it also confirms my point that scientists are busily checking everything they can get their hands on, and genetic testing has transformed the field.
No Bigfoot could possibly be among humans in this fashion. If one exists it is necessarily rare. Vampires, though…
I’m replying to Colibri, of course.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2014, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-somebody-did-shoot-bigfoot/678708/35 "2014-01-14T15:42:02Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> That’s an interesting point, but it still wouldn’t prevent us from defining BF as non-human. Coyotes and wolves can and do interbreed, but are not considered the same species. You’d have to establish that BF interbreeds with modern humans on a regular basis to convince the scientific community that the two populations are the same species.
Further, the BSC (biological species concept) really only works for animals “in the wild”. Humans sort of make it difficult to determine what “in the wild” means. Since this hasn’t been tested, I think scientists are able to make up new rules specifically related to humans if and when a new population of potentially non-_H. sapiens_ is discovered.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2014, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-somebody-did-shoot-bigfoot/678708/36 "2014-01-14T16:13:54Z")
Besides which, there’s currently no genetic test that can determine whether two specimens can interbreed: The only way to know is to test it directly. Humans are closer genetically to both chimp species than many other pairs of species that can interbreed, and yet so far as we know we can’t.
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### Author:  [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-somebody-did-shoot-bigfoot/678708/37 "2014-01-14T16:28:49Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> If sasquatches exist, they’re surely very rare. Could you perhaps fall afoul of the Endangered Species Act? Is that based on an explicit list, or does it include standards by which a hitherto-unknown creature could be considered endangered?
The person who did the shooting would ultimately be seen as doing science a favor, though, if he indeed provided the body to a university – providing confirmation of a heretofore unknown primate. It would be the discovery of the century! Surely the hunter would be exempted from prosecution. I dunno!
After official confirmation of the species, the second person who shot one would be in a load of trouble, I think…
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### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2014, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-somebody-did-shoot-bigfoot/678708/38 "2014-01-14T16:41:27Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#):
>
> No Bigfoot could possibly be among humans in this fashion. If one exists it is necessarily rare.
I dunno. I’ve had my suspicions about some people I’ve seen on the Subway…😉
All known human populations can interbreed, and all that have been genetically tested are part of the same species (even if some populations contain alleles that indicate past interbreeding with Neanderthals and others).
One could speculate that an extremely isolated human population that has never been tested genetically, such as the North Sentinelese in the Andaman islands, could have some genetic variant that would make interbreeding with other humans impossible, but that is unlikely in the extreme. (Anyway, we know that other Andamanese who have been in contact with other humans are part of our own species, so there is no reason to think the Sentinelese are any different.)
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### Author:  [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-somebody-did-shoot-bigfoot/678708/39 "2014-01-14T17:51:44Z")
The prosection would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that what you killed is a person. Given that Bigfoot is (presumably) genetically distinct from any living human population, this would be an extremely tall order. Information on the Bigfoot’s intelligence and behavior would consist almost entirely of antecdotes and pure speculation.
I think any attempt at a homicide prosecution would almost certainly fail. Most likely, no prosecutor would even attempt this and would pursue a charge of cruelty to animals or a violation of hunting laws.
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### Author:  [@RedSwinglineOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedSwinglineOne)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-somebody-did-shoot-bigfoot/678708/40 "2014-01-14T18:56:56Z")
> [@OldOlds](#):
>
> Well, if I am someplace where I am authorized to be hunting deer, and some idiot decides to prance through the area in a reasonably convincing deer costume, I bet I would not end up charged with anything serious if anything at all. So I think the human in bigfoot costume would be a similar situation.
I think the difference might be that because Bigfoot has never been proven to exist, (one could argue that) something that looks like Bigfoot is more likely a person in a costume than an actual Bigfoot. At the very least it could be considered reckless to shoot at an unidentified upright walking creature. I’m not sure it is a valid defense to say, “I saw something I had never seen before so I shot it!”.
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