# What if Terri Schiavo died tonight? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 22, 2005, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-terri-schiavo-died-tonight/295696 "2005-03-22T08:22:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-terri-schiavo-died-tonight/295696/21 "2005-03-23T05:45:29Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > What puzzles me is as _avid_ \ as the catholics are about the sanctity of marriage, and how marriage is a holy bond, yaddayaddayadda…[ok, and many denominations of protestant] > > Hm, didnt Michael Schiavo take ‘ownership’ of Terri in the marriage ceremony, and didnt Terri’s father ‘relinquish’ control over her to Michael in the same ceremony? You know, the whole “Who gives this woman” schtick? And arent the fundies so damn anal about the sanctity of marriage Wow, a lot of free-floating anti-Christian invective there, including name calling (“fundies”). Ownership? ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-terri-schiavo-died-tonight/295696/22 "2005-03-23T05:51:08Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > What puzzles me is as _avid_ \ as the catholics are about the sanctity of marriage, and how marriage is a holy bond, yaddayaddayadda…[ok, and many denominations of protestant] > > Hm, didnt Michael Schiavo take ‘ownership’ of Terri in the marriage ceremony, and didnt Terri’s father ‘relinquish’ control over her to Michael in the same ceremony? I don’t think you’d see any disagreement if it weren’t for the case that Michael was sleeping with another woman within a year or two after Terri collapsed. He pissed away and sanctity in the marriage at that point and shouldn’t have had control over Terri’s future given his obvious conflict of interest. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-terri-schiavo-died-tonight/295696/23 "2005-03-23T06:03:29Z")
A mistress and two children by her, all while still married to Terri. Can you see why the Schindlers are just a bit angry with his professions of loyalty to Terri? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-terri-schiavo-died-tonight/295696/24 "2005-03-23T06:12:42Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > Wow, a lot of free-floating anti-Christian invective there, including name calling (“fundies”). Ownership? Hey, my husband is Catholic lite [episcopalian, or as he puts it scots heretic], and I was raised western NY first baptist. Deal with it. As I am getting fed up with people dragging the bible out to validate anything they want to prove, or use to block some action _they_ don’t approve of, I wouldn’t mind seeing some basic honesty in people and have them admit that _they_ want to restrict _me_ [or anybody else in the world] from doing something _they_ want to do but feel they shouldnt do. In this case the damned parents just need to freaking let go already. It isnt a question of morality at this point, but one of total denial on their part. There isnt anything but a freaking brain stem. Let her GO. Get out of Michael’s face about things. Thye gave her up to Michaels care, they can pack sand as _he_ has the right to call the shots here according to their precious concept of marriage contract [he gave her daughter to him, on behalf of he and his wife, now they need to back the hell off and let hubby deal with the wife. She isnt daddy’s little girl any more.] ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-terri-schiavo-died-tonight/295696/25 "2005-03-23T06:16:05Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > I don’t think you’d see any disagreement if it weren’t for the case that Michael was sleeping with another woman within a year or two after Terri collapsed. He pissed away and sanctity in the marriage at that point and shouldn’t have had control over Terri’s future given his obvious conflict of interest. Well, how soon was she diagnosed as in a PVS? I know I dont want mrAru hanging around mourning me if I were PVS. ---
**Author:** ![Nocturne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9fc348/32.png) [@Nocturne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nocturne)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-terri-schiavo-died-tonight/295696/26 "2005-03-23T06:19:52Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > I don’t think you’d see any disagreement if it weren’t for the case that Michael was sleeping with another woman within a year or two after Terri collapsed. He pissed away and sanctity in the marriage at that point and shouldn’t have had control over Terri’s future given his obvious conflict of interest. Can I see a cite for “within a year or two”? Because I don’t think it was THAT quick. For some reason I’d thought it was 5-7 years after Terri’s collapse. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-terri-schiavo-died-tonight/295696/27 "2005-03-23T06:29:06Z")
> [@](#): > > A mistress and two children by her, all while still married to Terri. Can you see why the Schindlers are just a bit angry with his professions of loyalty to Terri? According to court testimony, the Schindlers encouraged him to date other people once her prognosis became clear. It was about five years after the incident before he started dating his current companion. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-terri-schiavo-died-tonight/295696/28 "2005-03-23T06:33:07Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Thye gave her up to Michaels care, they can pack sand as _he_ has the right to call the shots here according to their precious concept of marriage contract [he gave her daughter to him, on behalf of he and his wife Really? You know that as a fact? Interesting. And how is it that you know the actual marriage vows that Terri and Michael took? And what Mr. Schindler said and did? And could you quote your source as to what the Schindler’s “precious concept of marriage contract” is? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-terri-schiavo-died-tonight/295696/29 "2005-03-23T07:15:26Z")
> [@Nocturne](#): > > Can I see a cite for “within a year or two”? [Done](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=308068). > [@DoctorJ](#): > > According to court testimony, the Schindlers encouraged him to date other people once her prognosis became clear. I’d be very interested to see that testimony. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-terri-schiavo-died-tonight/295696/30 "2005-03-23T10:06:44Z")
> [@](#): > > **emarkp** : I don’t think you’d see any disagreement if it weren’t for the case that Michael was sleeping with another woman within a year or two after Terri collapsed. He pissed away and sanctity in the marriage at that point and shouldn’t have had control over Terri’s future given his obvious conflict of interest. I don’t see a conflict of interest. In fact, the easy way out for him would have been to divorce Terri and marry the woman who is the mother of his children. He certainly hasn’t profitted by remaining married to her. To the contrary, he was offered money to release guardianship to the parents, but he turned it down. I think he has been a most loyal husband in one of the most loving ways possible. I’ve been married almost twenty years myself. I would not want my husband to spend his life alone and without children while I remained in a PVS. Schiavo has been a remarkable husband that most wives would be proud of. The sanctity of marriage goes far deeper than mere physical fidelity. ---
**Author:** ![2nd\_Law](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/f475e1/32.png) [@2nd\_Law](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2nd_Law)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-terri-schiavo-died-tonight/295696/31 "2005-03-23T14:08:48Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > [Done](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=308068). When I went to that thread, there were two links. One no longer works, the other is to a blog. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-terri-schiavo-died-tonight/295696/32 "2005-03-23T15:18:04Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > The sanctity of marriage goes far deeper than mere physical fidelity. Agreed. Some marriages don’t have physical fidelity as a goal for marriage at all. ---
**Author:** ![PinkMarabou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@PinkMarabou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PinkMarabou)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-terri-schiavo-died-tonight/295696/33 "2005-03-23T15:56:58Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Why are you saying “our government” when all of the scummy behavior is coming from the Republicans? While I agree with you, the Democrats are not doing much to stop the rancid behavior of the right. I’ve lost hope, they have no balls. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-terri-schiavo-died-tonight/295696/34 "2005-03-23T16:18:29Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > [Done](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=308068). I’d be very interested to see that testimony. [Here ya go](http://www.sptimes.com/2003/11/23/Tampabay/Schiavo_clash_is_root.shtml) > [@](#): > > In some ways, Schiavo was treated as a son. He once brought a girlfriend home to meet the Schindlers, seeking their approval, and said they had encouraged him to date. > > “I think I said he deserved to start a new life,” Bob Schindler said in testimony in 1993. > > He said he hoped his son-in-law eventually would divorce his wife and start a new life. > > At the medical malpractice trial against doctors who treated Schiavo in 1992, Mary Schindler spoke with admiration about Schiavo’s attentiveness to her disabled daughter. > > “He’s there every day,” she said. “He is loving, caring. I don’t know of any young boy that would be as attentive. … He’s just been unbelieveable. And I know without him there is no way I could have survived all this.” ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-terri-schiavo-died-tonight/295696/35 "2005-03-23T16:24:09Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > Really? You know that as a fact? Interesting. And how is it that you know the actual marriage vows that Terri and Michael took? If they were married legally, and I’ve never heard otherwise, then it doesn’t matter what vows they took. They signed a contract. Included in the contract is a default change to the next-of-kin status. ---
**Author:** ![Indyellen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/indyellen/32/4176_2.png) [@Indyellen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indyellen)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-terri-schiavo-died-tonight/295696/36 "2005-03-23T17:41:25Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > “He said he hoped his son-in-law eventually would divorce his wife and start a new life.” Wasn’t one of the current arguments of the Schindlers that Terri didn’t/doesn’t have the right-to-die due to her being Roman Catholic? And yet, her father was _encouraging_ her husband to divorce her? There is no logic involved, anymore. Just one more reason for me to write that living will. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-terri-schiavo-died-tonight/295696/37 "2005-03-23T18:01:42Z")
You apparently do not understand the Catholic church’s positions on divorce and annulment. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-terri-schiavo-died-tonight/295696/38 "2005-03-23T20:26:27Z")
> [@PinkMarabou](#): > > While I agree with you, the Democrats are not doing much to stop the rancid behavior of the right. I’ve lost hope, they have no balls. Sure, but that’s a separate topic in and of itself. > [@Walloon](#): > > A mistress and two children by her, all while still married to Terri. Can you see why the Schindlers are just a bit angry with his professions of loyalty to Terri? Funny, I thought they were a bit angry after [Michael didn’t give them half of Terri’s malpractice settlement.](http://www.sptimes.com/2003/11/23/Tampabay/Schiavo_clash_is_root.shtml) > [@](#): > > At the medical malpractice trial against doctors who treated Schiavo in 1992, Mary Schindler spoke with admiration about Schiavo’s attentiveness to her disabled daughter. > > “He’s there every day,” she said. “He is loving, caring. I don’t know of any young boy that would be as attentive. … He’s just been unbelieveable. And I know without him there is no way I could have survived all this.” > > In a jury verdict in that suit, Schiavo received more than $700,000, which was set aside for her continued care. Her husband received $300,000 for loss of consortium. > > The Schindlers told lawyers they thought their son-in-law would share his $300,000 with them. Through the years, they said, they helped him financially. The Schindlers said they were owed more than $10,000. > > …Schiavo denied making such promises. ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-terri-schiavo-died-tonight/295696/39 "2005-03-24T21:23:27Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > “I think I said he deserved to start a new life,” Bob Schindler said in testimony in 1993. > > He said he hoped his son-in-law eventually would divorce his wife and start a new life. As I suspected. If he were to divorce her, the parents and family could take care of her. I don’t think the father was suggesting that he sleep with other women while still married to Terri. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-terri-schiavo-died-tonight/295696/40 "2005-03-25T11:47:21Z")
First, RE the OP title- If she died, I think a lot of us on both sides of the issue would whisper “Thank God”. Now to throw my poo in this debate- If Terri had openly & publically expressed a desire to die under these conditions, rather than us just having her husband’s word, OR if her family was in agreement with him & the only outside interference was by Pro-Life Extremists (I consider myself a 95% Pro-Lifer), AND if we had absolute scientific certitude that she would not suffer from the starvation-dehydration procedure (and is such certitude even possible?)- then, I’d say “Go ahead, disconnect & may she pass on peacefully.” BUT AFAIK her husband’s word is all that we have RE her wishes, and his entering into a para-marriage sheds some questionability upon him, her family is more than willing to take over care for her, and I have yet to hear how they know she won’t suffer from the lack of nutrition, therefore, for all the invective & politicization on both sides, I can’t fault the measures to keep her fed & watered. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-terri-schiavo-died-tonight/295696.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-terri-schiavo-died-tonight/295696.md?page=3)