# What if the Democrats cut a deal with Boehner on the Speakership? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 30, 2013, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023 "2013-09-30T18:36:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/61 "2013-10-06T19:21:44Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > The architects of our republican system of government purposely designed it to create lots of “tension” so as to preserve those pillars which support this democratic republic! > > Aside: there are “tactics” borne of political brinkmanship, and those borne out of corruption. Often, the former is necessary to quell the latter. [Peter King-R disagrees.](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/06/republican-rep-peter-king-we-are-the-ones-who-shut-down-the-government/) > [@](#): > > “The fact is, it was done in the House and the government is now closed and Obamacare is going forward. This was a strategy that never could work. It was almost sort of a nullification, to say we’re going to shut down the government if we don’t defund a law that we don’t like.” > > “If we want to defund something, we should repeal it,” he continued. “And do it the same way the president got it signed: elect Republicans to both Houses of Congress, repeal it and then have a Republican president sign it. This was a strategy doomed to failure.” ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/62 "2013-10-07T20:55:33Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > [Peter King-R disagrees.](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/06/republican-rep-peter-king-we-are-the-ones-who-shut-down-the-government/) I agree with Peter King 100%,and called this shutdown a “Kabuki dance.” for good reason. There are too many establishment leaders and fence-sitters in the republican party who’ll go no further than to give only a ‘pretense’ of resisting ACA, just as they did the debt ceiling. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/63 "2013-10-07T22:52:02Z")
So in other words, a majority of the House won’t fight to the death to oppose the ACA because they either support it or are insufficiently passionate against it. The minute it comes to a vote of the House, the anti-ACA forces lose. The only reason it hasn’t happened is that the Speaker of the House hasn’t allowed it to come to a vote. Because the minute a clean CR comes to a vote, it will be passed by a majority, and sent to the Senate, who will pass it by a majority, and sent to the President, who will sign it. And this is what the Speaker cannot do, because if he allows the House to vote then he’ll be fired as Speaker. He won’t be able to get a majority of the house to vote for him, no Democrats will and there will be enough Republicans that will refuse that the remaining Republicans won’t get a majority vote for him. Speaker of the House is voted by the entire house, you need a majority vote of the entire house to become Speaker. So what we’re really going to see is this is going to have to drag out until the debt ceiling limit date. And then Boehner is going to fall on his sword and wrap it all up in one package, and it will get signed, and then he’ll have to face the Republican caucus. To repeal a law the House needs to vote to repeal, the Senate needs to vote to repeal, and the President has to sign the repeal, or if the President vetoes it then 2/3rds of congress needs to vote to override the veto. Only one of those things is possible with ACA, the House might vote to repeal but the Senate won’t and the President won’t. So even though Obamacare is an abomination, you fuckers are stuck with it. This is democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/64 "2013-10-08T01:00:51Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > ACA - The proverbial threshold by which America officially crosses over in Socialism. This is it, then? This is the one piece of big, strong legislation which does this? Without ACA, America isn’t Socialist? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/65 "2013-10-08T01:36:10Z")
Executive Order 13731 of March 20, 2014 Proclamation of Socialist Commemoration Day By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, I, Barack Obama, President of the United States of America, hereby order: Section 1. Policy. As a Communist Fascist Christian-Radical Kenyan-Born Muslim, I have been seeking since my election to subvert the Constitution of the United States of America to promulgate a Socialist utopia in direct contradiction of the orders given by God, the Christian God, the Protestant Christian God, Jesus Christ is whom I’m talking about, no one else, who is the only God there ever was or will be, to the Founding Fathers, who were sacred and holy men who never compromised but always followed their most rigid convictions to their dying days as martyrs to the cause of freedom. Sec. 2. Establishment. I succeeded in this satanic mission on March 20, 2010, when Obamacare, under the lying name of the Affordable Care Act, was forced upon the American people by me and me alone, without any aid or abetting by Congress, in fact over the strewn bodies of Republicans who threw their bodies under the tanks I used in my coup of overturning the lawfully elected government of the United States of America. Sec. 3. General Provisions. (a) The date of March 20 is hereby and forever to be celebrated as Socialist Commemoration Day, to mark the achievement of my fiendish triumph over all that is decent and American. (b) All welfare recipients will be excused from work – ha, ha, got you there, everybody knows that they are freeloaders on the body politic who have never worked a day in their lives – to spend the day freely and publicly sponging off the public weal. © Schoolchildren will be required by their atheist teachers to curse God, you know Jesus Christ, the real one, see above, and chant “Allah is Lord” while wiping their asses with the Holy Bible, and I don’t mean the King James Version either. (d) Public burnings of confiscated guns will be held on the Washington Mall, George Washington’s grave, the Alamo, and the Creation Museum in Kentucky. What’s in the water there, anyway? [signed] Barack Obama The White House, March 20, 2014 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/66 "2013-10-08T01:46:44Z")
> [@](#): > > [signed] > Barack **HUSSEIN** Obama > The White House, > March 20, 2014 Fixed that for you. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/67 "2013-10-08T02:28:45Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > ACA - The proverbial threshold by which America officially crosses over in Socialism. :rolleyes: **If only!** No. Not into socialism. Not even into social democracy (which is **not** the same thing). Look around the world. You’ll find plenty of **non** -socialist countries that have **real** UCH. And you’re scared of [**this** half-assed thing](http://www.salon.com/2013/09/26/the_right%e2%80%99s_real_obamacare_nightmare/) that the Heritage Foundation invented in the first place?! ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/68 "2013-10-08T21:03:30Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > So in other words, a majority of the House won’t fight to the death to oppose the ACA because they either support it or are insufficiently passionate against it. The minute it comes to a vote of the House, the anti-ACA forces lose. The only reason it hasn’t happened is that the Speaker of the House hasn’t allowed it to come to a vote. Because the minute a clean CR comes to a vote, it will be passed by a majority, and sent to the Senate, who will pass it by a majority, and sent to the President, who will sign it. > > And this is what the Speaker cannot do, because if he allows the House to vote then he’ll be fired as Speaker. He won’t be able to get a majority of the house to vote for him, no Democrats will and there will be enough Republicans that will refuse that the remaining Republicans won’t get a majority vote for him. Speaker of the House is voted by the entire house, you need a majority vote of the entire house to become Speaker. > > So what we’re really going to see is this is going to have to drag out until the debt ceiling limit date. And then Boehner is going to fall on his sword and wrap it all up in one package, and it will get signed, and then he’ll have to face the Republican caucus. > > To repeal a law the House needs to vote to repeal, the Senate needs to vote to repeal, and the President has to sign the repeal, or if the President vetoes it then 2/3rds of congress needs to vote to override the veto. Only one of those things is possible with ACA, the House might vote to repeal but the Senate won’t and the President won’t. So even though Obamacare is an abomination, you fuckers are stuck with it. This is democracy. I think that’s generally the plot line many are anticipating. What it certainly is not is representative government. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/69 "2013-10-08T21:21:03Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > I think that’s generally the plot line many are anticipating. > > What it certainly is not is representative government. How so? At that point a majority of both Houses of Congress will have voted for the CR and the President will have signed it. How is that NOT representative? Here’s a hint: Representative government does not mean that you get what you want all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/70 "2013-10-08T21:27:23Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > I think that’s generally the plot line many are anticipating. > > What it certainly is not is representative government. Yes it is. Do you think only people who agree with you deserve to be represented? There are representatives who want Obamacare to happen. There are Senators who want it to happen. The president wants it to happen. It’s true that there are a majority in the House that would vote to defund Obamacare, they’ve voted for it many times already. The problem, as you should have learned from watching Schoolhouse Rock, is that a bill does not become a law when passed by a majority of the House. It also has to be passed by the Senate and signed (or veto overridden) by the President. That is representative government. Or are you one of those cranks who insist that the United States is not a democracy? And then insist that democracy means that the people vote directly on every issue, and that there are no limits to the will of the majority, and that’s why the United States is not a democracy but is a republic? Because that’s silly. The United States is a republic, but it’s also a democracy because power derives from the people. The United Kingdom is a democracy but not a republic, China is a republic but not a democracy, and Saudi Arabia is not a democracy and not a republic. Please don’t insist that terms mean only what they meant in 1787. Who are you, Humpty Dumpty? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/71 "2013-10-08T22:35:11Z")
Specifically, the U.S. is a **democratic** republic. As opposed to, say, an **aristocratic** republic like the old Venetian Republic, where only the merchant-nobles of the Golden Book could vote. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/72 "2013-10-08T22:40:56Z")
Heck, even ancient Athens was an oligarchic democracy, since only a small fraction of the population–free adult male citizens–could vote. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/73 "2013-10-08T23:23:19Z")
What is Boehner’s home district like? Pointing to the question of what good it would do him to keep the Speaker’s gavel and lose his seat. A Phallic victory. (Sure, I could look it up, but this gives some smartass a chance to show off, and I am fond of smart asses. Don’t know why, exactly. Also, lazy and easily …_oooh_, shiny! ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/74 "2013-10-09T23:19:38Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > How so? At that point a majority of both Houses of Congress will have voted for the CR and the President will have signed it. How is that NOT representative? > > Here’s a hint: > Representative government does not mean that you get what you want all the time. Here’s reality: Had America been functioning as a healthy “representative government” rather than a third-rate corrupt banana republic, the ACA would never have seen the light of day. ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/75 "2013-10-09T23:41:45Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Yes it is. Do you think only people who agree with you deserve to be represented? There are representatives who want Obamacare to happen. There are Senators who want it to happen. The president wants it to happen. > > It’s true that there are a majority in the House that would vote to defund Obamacare, they’ve voted for it many times already. The problem, as you should have learned from watching Schoolhouse Rock, is that a bill does not become a law when passed by a majority of the House. It also has to be passed by the Senate and signed (or veto overridden) by the President. > > That is representative government. > > Or are you one of those cranks who insist that the United States is not a democracy? And then insist that democracy means that the people vote directly on every issue, and that there are no limits to the will of the majority, and that’s why the United States is not a democracy but is a republic? > > Because that’s silly. The United States is a republic, but it’s also a democracy because power derives from the people. The United Kingdom is a democracy but not a republic, China is a republic but not a democracy, and Saudi Arabia is not a democracy and not a republic. > > Please don’t insist that terms mean only what they meant in 1787. Who are you, Humpty Dumpty? I may not be “Humpty Dumpty”, but I am cracked up about how your blustery long - winded post could completely miss the point of what I was actually referring to. ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/76 "2013-10-10T00:02:38Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > This is it, then? This is the one piece of big, strong legislation which does this? Without ACA, America isn’t Socialist? I think if you do a little research about ‘socialized medicine/healthcare’ you come to realize that ACA wasn’t the first attempt by our government - namely democrats - to impose itself upon Americans through healthcare. Primer: https://www.youtube.com/embed/fRdLpem-AAs?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/77 "2013-10-10T01:15:18Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > Here’s reality: > > Had America been functioning as a healthy “representative government” rather than a third-rate corrupt banana republic, the ACA would never have seen the light of day. You know I can’t stand the idea that a lot of conservatives say all the time, which goes like this: When a conservative act is passed into law, it’s legitimate, but if a liberal act is passed into law, then it was done by some underhanded means. You know, sometimes the majority really is liberal in a particular area in a particular time and place. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/78 "2013-10-10T03:29:37Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > The architects of our republican system of government purposely designed it to create lots of “tension” so as to preserve those pillars which support this democratic republic! The architects of our republican system of government were wrong about a **lot** of things, as you know. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/79 "2013-10-10T03:31:05Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > Here’s reality: > > Had America been functioning as a healthy “representative government” rather than a third-rate corrupt banana republic, the ACA would never have seen the light of day. How many third-rate corrupt banana republics have UHC? That’s something you find mainly in fully-industrialized democracies. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/80 "2013-10-10T03:42:07Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > I think if you do a little research about ‘socialized medicine/healthcare’ you come to realize that ACA wasn’t the first attempt by our government - namely democrats - to impose itself upon Americans through healthcare. Thank Og! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023.md?page=5)