# What if the Democrats cut a deal with Boehner on the Speakership? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 30, 2013, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023 "2013-09-30T18:36:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/81 "2013-10-10T03:45:41Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > I may not be “Humpty Dumpty”, but I am cracked up about how your blustery long - winded post could completely miss the point of what I was actually referring to. What you were originally referring to was: > [@Conservian](#): > > I think that’s generally the plot line many are anticipating. > > What it certainly is not is representative government. It **is** representative government which enacted ACA in the first place, and it is representative government that has so far failed miserably and globally-embarrassingly in 40+ attempts to repeal it, and therefore representative government, **and you,** should be ready at this point to accept it. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/82 "2013-10-11T00:35:48Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > I think if you do a little research about ‘socialized medicine/healthcare’ you come to realize that ACA wasn’t the first attempt by our government - namely democrats - to impose itself upon Americans through healthcare. > > Primer: > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs) But all previous attempts were failures, correct? If this is the big piece of “Hey, we’re socialist now!” legislation, then logically we couldn’t point to any successful, made it-into-law stuff and say it was socialist, because it’s only _now_ that it’s happening? ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/83 "2013-10-11T01:18:14Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What you were originally referring to was: > > It **is** representative government which enacted ACA in the first place, and it is representative government that has so far failed miserably and globally-embarrassingly in 40+ attempts to repeal it, and therefore representative government, **and you,** should be ready at this point to accept it. What passed/enacted ACA was a level of blatant corruption (bribery) typical of a country exhibiting only the pretense of “representative government.” Banana republics are known for this kind of government. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/84 "2013-10-11T02:09:45Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > What is Boehner’s home district like? Pointing to the question of what good it would do him to keep the Speaker’s gavel and lose his seat. A Phallic victory. 'Luc, I keep thinking what you meant was Pyrrhic but mayhaps I’m not up to speed with the latest political idioms …does a phallic victory come after a cock fight? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/85 "2013-10-11T02:57:49Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > That response is typical of how ACA was first presented by Democrats in public, then maneuvered it into law in private, where bribery and corruption thrived. :rolleyes: That bullshit again? > [@Conservian](#): > > ACA - The proverbial threshold by which America officially crosses over in Socialism. :rolleyes::rolleyes: **That** bullshit again?! Once again: **If only!** No. Not into socialism. Not even into social democracy (which is **not** the same thing). Look around the world. You’ll find plenty of **non** -socialist countries that have **real** UCH. And you’re scared of [**this** half-assed thing](http://www.salon.com/2013/09/26/the_right%e2%80%99s_real_obamacare_nightmare/) that the Heritage Foundation invented in the first place?! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/86 "2013-10-11T02:58:50Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > What passed/enacted ACA was a level of blatant corruption (bribery) typical of a country exhibiting only the pretense of “representative government.” Banana republics are known for this kind of government. The only corruption/bribery involved in the ACA was that which allowed the health-insurance companies a seat at the table, which is why there’s no “public option” in it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/87 "2013-10-11T19:24:59Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > 'Luc, I keep thinking what you meant was Pyrrhic but mayhaps I’m not up to speed with the latest political idioms …does a phallic victory come after a cock fight? Well, not exactly – that’s the kind of fight nobody **loses**. . . ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/88 "2013-10-12T15:48:37Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > But all previous attempts were failures, correct? If this is the big piece of “Hey, we’re socialist now!” legislation, then logically we couldn’t point to any successful, made it-into-law stuff and say it was socialist, because it’s only _now_ that it’s happening? Well, you know left-leaning ideologues - when at first you don’t succeed…’ Another insightful read about that process - of - transformation into socialism: [http://townhall.com/columnists/terryjeffrey/2013/04/10/when-government-and-health-care-converge-socialism-begins-n1562912/page/full](http://townhall.com/columnists/terryjeffrey/2013/04/10/when-government-and-health-care-converge-socialism-begins-n1562912/page/full) > [@Conservian](#): > > What passed/enacted ACA was a level of blatant corruption (bribery) typical of a country exhibiting only the pretense of “representative government.” Banana republics are known for this kind of government. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :rolleyes: That bullshit again? > > :rolleyes::rolleyes: **That** bullshit again?! Once again: **If only!** No. Not into socialism. Not even into social democracy (which is **not** the same thing). Look around the world. You’ll find plenty of **non** -socialist countries that have **real** UCH. And you’re scared of [**this** half-assed thing](http://www.salon.com/2013/09/26/the_right%e2%80%99s_real_obamacare_nightmare/) that the Heritage Foundation invented in the first place?! Create whatever type of ‘boogeyman’ you want to, is won’t change the historical trail that "socialized medicine’ has left behind. I’m thinking you have a very different understanding of what constitutes socialist leaning policies and free market solutions than I do. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The only corruption/bribery involved in the ACA was that which allowed the health-insurance companies a seat at the table, which is why there’s no “public option” in it. Government and corporations ‘working together,’ What do they tend to call that again? Will the former Sen. from Nebraska please stand? > [@suranyi](#): > > You know I can’t stand the idea that a lot of conservatives say all the time, which goes like this: When a conservative act is passed into law, it’s legitimate, but if a liberal act is passed into law, then it was done by some underhanded means. > > You know, sometimes the majority really is liberal in a particular area in a particular time and place. Example? “Sometimes”?? America has been veering left for decades now. But occasionally we’re redirected, if only momentarily, by a quick swerve ‘right’ every now and then. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The architects of our republican system of government were wrong about a **lot** of things, as you know. But the construct of this democratic republic was certainly not among them, as they allowed for ‘change’ through the amendment process. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > How many third-rate corrupt banana republics have UHC? That’s something you find mainly in fully-industrialized democracies. Corruption - as it applies to politicians being bought and paid for. Policy or ideology alone does not constitute, “corruption.” > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What you were originally referring to was: > > It **is** representative government which enacted ACA in the first place, and it is representative government that has so far failed miserably and globally-embarrassingly in 40+ attempts to repeal it, and therefore representative government, **and you,** should be ready at this point to accept it. Representative of who? Gotta love ‘representation’ for our Nation here: The Louisiana Purchase The Cornhusker Kickback And that’s only for starters. And the ‘bipartisan’ support for it was overwhelming too, right,? along with that great majority of 51 votes in the Senate. Try selling that “BS” to someone who doesn’t know about their country. There’s plenty of them out there. Keep your eyes on America, her needs and wants, and forget the ‘global community’ for a while. America didn’t get to be “extraordinary” by following what other nations do. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/89 "2013-10-16T21:24:47Z")
Back on topic, we find: [House Dems Sent Boehner a Message: Strike a Deal and Maybe We Can Help Protect Your Speakership – Mother Jones](http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/10/john-boehner-democrats-debt-ceiling-deal-speakership) ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/90 "2013-10-17T18:42:24Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > Back on topic, we find: > > [House Dems Sent Boehner a Message: Strike a Deal and Maybe We Can Help Protect Your Speakership – Mother Jones](http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/10/john-boehner-democrats-debt-ceiling-deal-speakership) From that article, it sounds to me like Democrats are making every effort to leave an impression that Boehner was at least contemplating working with them, so as to assure that his chances of maintaining his speakership are slim and none. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/91 "2013-10-17T19:56:15Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > From that article, it sounds to me like Democrats are making every effort to leave an impression that Boehner was at least contemplating working with them, so as to assure that his chances of maintaining his speakership are slim and none. Sure, that’s possible too. Just thought it was interesting in light of the (ahem) topic of this AWESOME THREAD I STARTED. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/92 "2013-10-18T00:05:32Z")
Boehner, right now, seems to [have great job security](http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/boehner-will-keep-his-gavel-now). The Tea Party think he stood up for them by allowing the shutdown at all, and for holding out until the last minute. You guys seem to forget that we are not dealing with rational people here. It’s not as concrete as an actual poll would be, but that’s from MSNBC–which notably leans Democratic. It’s in Democrats’ best interest to convince the Speaker that he is in trouble with his party, for the above mentioned reasons. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/93 "2013-10-18T17:36:22Z")
LOL! If that’s what the Tea Baggers believe, then they are dumber than I think they are, which is pretty fucking dumb already ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/94 "2013-10-18T17:41:05Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > Keep your eyes on America, her needs and wants, and forget the ‘global community’ for a while. America didn’t get to be “extraordinary” by following what other nations do. American-Exceptionalist bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/95 "2013-10-19T18:56:37Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > Sure, that’s possible too. Just thought it was interesting in light of the (ahem) topic of this AWESOME THREAD I STARTED. 😃 “AWESOME” indeed:) ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/96 "2013-10-21T04:43:50Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > This is it, then? This is the one piece of big, strong legislation which does this? Without ACA, America isn’t Socialist? No, no, no. A couple of years ago, it was that 4% buffer in the marginal tax rates in the highest bracket. That buffer is what makes us not Socialist. …Or Communist. I can’t keep up with the hyperbole of the day. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023/97 "2013-10-21T04:48:19Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Yes it is. Do you think only people who agree with you deserve to be represented? There are representatives who want Obamacare to happen. There are Senators who want it to happen. The president wants it to happen. > > It’s true that there are a majority in the House that would vote to defund Obamacare, they’ve voted for it many times already. The problem, as you should have learned from watching Schoolhouse Rock, is that a bill does not become a law when passed by a majority of the House. It also has to be passed by the Senate and signed (or veto overridden) by the President. > > That is representative government. > > Or are you one of those cranks who insist that the United States is not a democracy? And then insist that democracy means that the people vote directly on every issue, and that there are no limits to the will of the majority, and that’s why the United States is not a democracy but is a republic? > > Because that’s silly. The United States is a republic, but it’s also a democracy because power derives from the people. The United Kingdom is a democracy but not a republic, China is a republic but not a democracy, and Saudi Arabia is not a democracy and not a republic. > > Please don’t insist that terms mean only what they meant in 1787. Who are you, Humpty Dumpty? Definitions become malleable depending on when you want them to be. A city council gets together to overwhelmingly pass an ordinance that a squeaky minority doesn’t like? “That’s taking the power from the people. That’s the kind of stuff the people should vote directly on!” A city council that isn’t representative of the populace that tries to push forward an ordinance? If you’re in the minority, but like what’s being passed, then that’s just " bold leadership". [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-democrats-cut-a-deal-with-boehner-on-the-speakership/670023.md?page=4)