# What if the Dope offered a ban amnesty? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 22, 2023, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-dope-offered-a-ban-amnesty/987371 "2023-07-22T00:22:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-dope-offered-a-ban-amnesty/987371/81 "2023-07-23T21:41:35Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > **This really isn’t the thread for this discussion** but I know at least one transgender poster that left as the Dope was so unwelcoming and insulting to transgender people. If you’re referring to whom I think you’re referring to, she was brought up as an example by @Broomstick in a reply to **DrDeth** in December of 2020. The very thread in which @Eve stopped by to say that she’s too busy. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-dope-offered-a-ban-amnesty/987371/82 "2023-07-23T21:49:24Z")
The topic of “amnesty” in the general sense only has value if: 1. The person was sanctioned for behavior that’s now allowed, or 2. The person has shown evidence of contrition and rehabilitation. For most banned posters, #1 will rarely if ever be true, and #2 is unknowable since there’s no “jail” and hence no way to observe “good behavior.” In a significant number of cases (by my count) the banned posters have been working the refs for years, and have perfected the craft of feigning contrition and compliance. Hence any so-called “amnesty” would simply restart that pattern and all the toil along with it. One could envision a “one strike and you’re out” system to ensure amnestees stay on their best behavior, but the certain outcome of this would be that others with long memories would target them relentlessly. So no matter how you sliced it, the juice just isn’t worth the squeeze. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-dope-offered-a-ban-amnesty/987371/83 "2023-07-23T21:52:47Z")
We had a poster … whose name I cannot recall … who was … in … famous for his(?) novel … posting style … which they claimed was simply a reflection of how they … perceived their own thoughts … and which had to be transcribed … as they occurred with no other editing … used … which created widespread consternation amongst many of us … myself included … I beleive they are no longer active … but I don’t recall them being banned … perhaps mercilously pitted a time or three … but that’s it ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-dope-offered-a-ban-amnesty/987371/84 "2023-07-23T21:54:08Z")
It was a LONG time ago, and I was only lurking back then, iirc, but wasnt “Satan” banned for a PM to a mod? Not for any actual posts? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-dope-offered-a-ban-amnesty/987371/86 "2023-07-23T22:04:43Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Not for any actual posts? I know of a poster that banned themselves for an exchange with a Moderator. As they’re not officially banned they’re welcomed back at any time. Even by said moderator. (Me). But if a poster said something bad enough in a PM to get banned, that doesn’t change anything. I’m pretty sure at least one other poster was banned for skeevy PMs to some of the women posters. I guessing there were more. I’m still fairly new on the job as a moderator so I don’t know a lot of early stuff. > [@Skywatcher](#): > > If you’re referring to whom I think you’re referring to, she was brought up as an example by @Broomstick Actually, I know who you mean and that makes at least 2 posters. As she left when I was only lightly read and posting for a time, I kind of forgot. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-dope-offered-a-ban-amnesty/987371/87 "2023-07-23T22:18:14Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > The person has shown evidence of contrition and rehabilitation I’m on another board that’s kind of the successor to an old vbulletin board that was killed. There was effectively total amnesty, as the new board was run by different people and there was some missing history anyway. Some of the previously banned posters were eventually banned. A lot never made the migration. Some posters who should have been banned finally were. And there are a couple who were banned on the old board, and have not yet caused any trouble on the new. People do change. I’m not in favor of a SDMB amnesty, though. Too many people don’t change. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-dope-offered-a-ban-amnesty/987371/88 "2023-07-23T22:46:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It was a LONG time ago, and I was only lurking back then, iirc, but wasnt “Satan” banned for a PM to a mod? Not for any actual posts? That’s ancient history, and very few people would have any memory at all of it, but from what I remember, he basically had an attitude that he was popular enough that he was one of the elites, and so he could call the shots. If I remember correctly (which, two decades later, is not a negligible assumption), the last straw was him posting in a thread “Well, since this is going to be moved to the Pit anyway”, and then proceeding in Pit form. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-dope-offered-a-ban-amnesty/987371/89 "2023-07-23T23:16:00Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It was a LONG time ago, and I was only lurking back then, iirc, but wasnt “Satan” banned for a PM to a mod? Not for any actual posts? As I recall, Satan was banned for being a continuous asshole. It was well known that he was on his last chance. He socked up a few times afterwards. There was someone who was banned for sending a PM to a Mod saying “shove your warning up your ass” but it was much more recently than Satan. I can’t recall who it was but they were also at the end of their rope. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-dope-offered-a-ban-amnesty/987371/90 "2023-07-23T23:21:22Z")
That does sound really familiar, I think it was recent. Actually I think it was Scumpup. They were banned in 2019 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-dope-offered-a-ban-amnesty/987371/91 "2023-07-23T23:41:48Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > As I recall, Satan was banned for being a continuous asshole. > [@Why was Satan banned?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-satan-banned/73403/4): > > Hmmm. One thing I was wondering while people were discussing the shortest stint somebody has had before getting banned - what’s the LONGEST existence, either in terms of post count or time, before eventually getting banned? Does Satan hold this record? I seem to recall remarks in passing that a moderator was actually banned once, which must have been an entertaining firefight for those of us in the cheap seats. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-dope-offered-a-ban-amnesty/987371/92 "2023-07-24T01:12:32Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > And there are a couple who were banned on the old board, and have not yet caused any trouble on the new. People do change. AFAIK all the successor boards were more lax in moderation than the current board. Not saying what’s the right level, but that ban signal may not be 100% compatible between the two. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-dope-offered-a-ban-amnesty/987371/93 "2023-07-24T01:58:42Z")
I’m talking about a different pair of chat sites, and the current moderation is actually a lot stricter than the moderation in the original site. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-dope-offered-a-ban-amnesty/987371/94 "2023-07-24T09:32:40Z")
> [@Tibby](#): > > For another thing, you can always mute someone, or simply scroll past their posts for the short time they are here before being re-banned (assuming they warrant banning). Does muting/ignoring a poster also ban them from sending you PM’s? Because if not, they can attack people that way. On this forum I’ve been a recipient of PM’s telling me to kill myself, among other repugnant things (which, yes, I have shared with the mods). With the new board software it is now impossible for the recipient to delete these hateful messages. Never underestimate the cleverness of bullies when they seek to cause other people pain. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > > [@Tibby](#): > > > > Kidding aside, banned offenders should be allowed back on a probationary basis. These boards need an injection of fresh blood—too many good posters have wandered off, been banned, been bullied away (I believe a long-term quality poster is currently thinking of leaving due to bullying), or gone to the big squid in the sky. > > Respectfully, I don’t follow this at all. > > You mention a current good poster currently thinking of leaving over bullying, yet bullying is exactly what most bannees were banned for. Reinstating the banned bullies will help that poster or the rest of us how? ^ This. There were a lot of toxic people that wound up banned. And you’re talking about allowing them back? Why? Insta-bans are largely unheard of here, my experience (over the past 22 years) is that a person has to screw up MULTIPLE times before being booted. You already get a chance to clean up your behavior before the initial ban. If a banned individual wants to appeal to the mods (I dunno - maybe they had a psychotic break and are now better or something) then they need to made a solid case of their reform and that they’re unlikely to transgress again. But no, I don’t want a step by step established “road to amnesty” to allow toxic people, bullies, and bigots back onto this board. They’ve done enough damage already. > [@Tibby](#): > > Consider someone who has no (or little) history of being an asshole, but resorts to assholery under duress after being piled on greatly. Perhaps they are concomitantly under a great deal of stress IRL. Many people under these conditions snap. These kind of Dopers exist (or existed) and have committed suicide-by-mod. They are _acute_ assholes, not _chronic_ assholes. Acute assholes should be be forgiven if they resort to being non-assholes. Failure to address bullying - being piled on - has long been a failure of this board. Including the people at the top gas-lighting victims by saying “I don’t see it”. (I can only conclude that person was never a victim of bullying himself). That’s a hypothetical situation where I could see an appeal being made to the mods and the person making the case that it was a one-time thing. If I recall there was a poster who got into trouble due to a psychiatric illness, but he wasn’t banned - he was reinstated after treatment. So… there’s another situation where I could potentially see an un-banning. But these are exceptions. We definitely want to keep out the bullies, the bigots, and the sort of jackass that would encourage an actively suicidal young woman to kill herself (that, thank goodness, was _eventually_ cornfielded but only after someone pointed out potential legal liability, not, apparently, from the dickishness of telling someone who had just got out of a hospital for a suicide attempt to finish the job and go kill herself. As just one example of some of the extreme bullying that has occurred here.) THAT is what I want to see prevented. Sorry if that might mean some redeemable people don’t get back in, but I’d say the vast majority of people banned really should _stay_ banned forever. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > That’s probably not going to happen just from the difficulty of getting everyone to learn of the mod instruction, much less collective individual willingness to follow it. How our shaky returnee reacts to the ensuing pile-on will be as much on us as it is on them. Tough problem to solve. Nope. It’s easy to solve. Don’t un-ban people. > [@Tibby](#): > > Start a thread asking for names of former members we’d like to see return (those who drifted away, and those who were banned, but generally contributed thoughtful posts, and show potential for rehabilitation). Make it “by invitation only.” If you can provide contact information for these folks, all the better. The poster I’d most like to see come back has moved on to other things which take up a great deal of time. That poster is also suffering personal/health problems and I suspect is even less able to tolerate abuse than in the past. So why would I ask them to come back to a place that caused them pain in the past? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-dope-offered-a-ban-amnesty/987371/95 "2023-07-24T09:35:48Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I agree with all of this. I have disagreed with a warning here and there but never with a banning and many of those should have been banned sooner than they were. This is the sort of post I wish I could +1 on this board. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-dope-offered-a-ban-amnesty/987371/96 "2023-07-24T10:14:06Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@MrDibble](#): > > > > The posters we _do_ want back were rarely banned. They left of their own accord. _Because of_ the banned posters. Women, and minorities, and trans posters who just didn’t stick around because the bigots were allowed to stay way past time. > > This has been stated several times, but never with any evidence. It is not my place to speak for a victim of bullying and bigotry. Why do you doubt that some people have left because of maltreatment by others? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-dope-offered-a-ban-amnesty/987371/97 "2023-07-24T12:30:41Z")
I, too, know of posters who’ve left for those reasons. I didn’t think it was at all controversial. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-dope-offered-a-ban-amnesty/987371/98 "2023-07-24T14:02:26Z")
I believe the OP is a solution in search of a problem. There is nothing prohibiting the staff from reinstating a banned poster. Our emails are available. It’s been done a few times. With the amount of chances we give posters it would have to be very special circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-dope-offered-a-ban-amnesty/987371/99 "2023-07-24T14:11:44Z")
Perhaps if a brain tumor had caused someone to go rogue, so to speak, and subsequent recovery after surgery put them in their right mind. Sonofabitch, I just realized I missed a great opportunity to go bull goose looney when I had that aneurism followed by brain surgery. 😁 ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-dope-offered-a-ban-amnesty/987371/100 "2023-07-24T14:12:51Z")
It’s so hard to plan these things in advance. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-dope-offered-a-ban-amnesty/987371/101 "2023-07-24T14:26:14Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > There were a lot of toxic people that wound up banned. And you’re talking about allowing them back? Why? Insta-bans are largely unheard of here, my experience (over the past 22 years) is that a person has to screw up MULTIPLE times before being booted. You already get a chance to clean up your behavior before the initial ban. I suggested up-thread that banned posters should be allowed back by invitation only, and on a probationary basis. I was thinking of bannees who were generally good posters, but flamed out after being piled-on and committed suicide-by-mod. Racist, misogynist, or life-threatening bannees should not be invited back under any circumstance. In fact, if I received threats against my life, I would notify the cops after notifying the mods. But, judging by the responses in this thread, no one appears to fit that description (i.e. good posters who _broke bad_ under stress and committed suicide-by-mod), and I can’t think of anyone either. Ipso facto, _no_ banned members should be invited back. I retract my suggestion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-dope-offered-a-ban-amnesty/987371.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-dope-offered-a-ban-amnesty/987371.md?page=6)