# What if the pope went crazy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 9, 2000, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-pope-went-crazy/17718 "2000-03-09T10:42:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2000, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-pope-went-crazy/17718/61 "2000-03-13T17:34:00Z")
Majormd, if I may point out one thing - Otto was simply expressing his _ **opinion** _, and I don’t think he was expressing it in a particularly antagonistic way. You can take or leave his opinion as you see fit, and it doesn’t necessarily have to challenge your core belief system. I mean, I agree with him that Christianity, as a religious institution, is a bunch of bunk and hooey, but that doesn’t mean I discount it as a legitimate belief system for other people. Similarly, a lot of people say the same thing about my church, but as long as it is at the very least accepted as a viable option for a belief system, well, call it what you want - I can handle it (mostly). Even more to the point, you are free to believe what you believe, and I am free to believe what I do. Goodness knows I’ve been called much, _much_ worse than a nutjob or lunatic simply for _not_ being Christian, and usually just for being gay, but I’ve learned to be thick-skinned about it - they’re just words, and more importantly, they’re just someone else’s opinion, which really has no relevance to me or my life or my beliefs unless I choose to let them have relevance. Should we all be a little more tolerant of each other, despite what we may think of each other? Absolutely. Would I be offended if someone called my religion a bunch of nutjobs? Probably (and they have). But although I wouldn’t have chosen Otto’s way of expressing himself, I don’t really think he crossed any lines that have deserved such an attack. Esprix * * * [Ask the Gay Guy!](http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001376.html) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2000, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-pope-went-crazy/17718/62 "2000-03-13T17:50:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by neutron star: > \*\* Did I SAY that? Did you read my post at all? Why are you putting words into my mouth and making these odd assumptions? > > **The vast majority of people against homosexual marriage, and I don’t think you can deny this, ARE against it for religious reasons.** Really, why else would they be against it? Blind hatred?\*\* You got a cite for that? Yeah, I think “blind hatred” is one reason some people are against it; another is homophobia; another may be a legitimate but, IMHO, misguided belief in the things they actually say about “protecting marriage” and all that crap. Yup, I read your post, sounds like another Christian-bash: > [@](#): > > I just wish more > Christians could KEEP IT TO THEMSELVES instead of trying to push it on the rest of the country. For example, if every Christian was like Polycarp, I would not have a problem in the least. It’s just that when you storm out of the woodwork and proclaim that homosexuals cannot marrry because your black > book says so, I get angry. So your attack was on Christians specifically, and not on any other religious group, and you blame them, and only them (in this post, at any rate) for the current legal ban on gay marriages. I must have missed where the Muslims came out supporting it, and the Jews, and where it is legal and accepted in non-predominantly-Christian countries around the world. Maybe you could provide us with information showing where in the world non-Christians have accepted and legalized gay marriage, so that we understand that it is in fact a “Christian” phenomenon and no other variable affects it. -Melin * * * **Voted Best Moderator (Emeritus)** ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2000, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-pope-went-crazy/17718/63 "2000-03-13T19:50:00Z")
:::yawn::: I’m done discussing the tangential issues. I’ve stated why I think my statements are appropriate to the thread and my esteemed opponent has stated the basis for his disagreement, so rather than have the thread degenerate further I’m taking a step back from it. So, what if the Pope went crazy, assuming that he isn’t already? The cardinals would lock him away until he died and pick a new, presumably less crazy one. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2000, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-pope-went-crazy/17718/64 "2000-03-13T20:11:00Z")
> [@](#): > > So your attack was on Christians specifically, and not on any other religious group, and you blame them, and only them (in this post, at any rate) for the current legal ban on gay marriages. Okay, let me put it this way. If Catholic and Protestant churches officially supported gay marriage, would it be legal in the U.S? Of course it would. I’m blaming Christians because they’re the only significant obstacle in THIS country. If I was in India or Africa, perhaps I’d be whining about some other group, but I’m not. ## On all the gay marriage threads on this board, the only two arguments people have against it are that it’s against the Christian religion and some nonsense about having to change the dictionary for the homosexuals. The only people on this board I have seen come out against gay marriage are Christian. Maybe it’s different in real life, but I don’t know that many intelligent people to engage in debates IRL, so I’m just going by what I see here. Windows 95: 32-bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16-bit patch to an 8-bit operating system originally coded for a 4-bit microprocessor, written by a 2-bit company that can’t stand for 1 bit of competition. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2000, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-pope-went-crazy/17718/65 "2000-03-13T21:01:00Z")
I’ve seen threads hijacked before, but this is ridiculous. Now… No Vo Da Da and justwannano- As a Catholic of the Byzantine Rite, I feel that I have a duty to set the two of you straight. The Catholic Church was the original Christian Church, although I think it took a century or two for anyone to actually get around to applying the label “Catholic.” Catholic beliefs and practices can be traced back to the first century, although they certainly weren’t as elaborate as they are now. All other Christian denominations, including the Eastern Orthodox churches, had their origins in the Catholic Church. The Greek Orthodox church split with Rome in 1054, for reasons that had more to do with politics than religion. Now, is everyone finished insulting each other, talking about gay marriage, and washing their naughty bits with Pope Soap on a Rope? Good. The OP brings up an interesting question. I agree with the posters who stated that the Curia would simply shield the Holy Father from the public, should he show signs of, um, diminished mental capacity. Although, as Freedom stated, poison has been used in the past… Now, if the Pope were to go off his rocker and start spouting Gnosticism or Arianism or some other such heresy… to tell you the truth, I think poison would be the most likely means of putting a stop to him. I don’t think the Catholic Church has a procedure in place for deposing a Pope. But I don’t think anything like that is likely to happen. In one thousand, nine hundred sixty seven years of Church history, the See of St. Peter (that’s Rome, for all you heathen) is the only patriarchate that has never fallen into heresy. One of the fundamental tenets of Catholic belief is that God protects His Church from error. * * * The trouble with Sir Launcelot is by the time he comes riding up, you’ve already married King Arthur. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2000, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-pope-went-crazy/17718/66 "2000-03-13T21:12:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by agisofia: > > Now, is everyone finished insulting each other… > > In one thousand, nine hundred sixty seven years of Church history, the See of St. Peter (that’s Rome, **for all you heathen** ) is the only patriarchate that has never fallen into heresy. (My emphasis) Obviously you weren’t finished insulting everyone. 🙂 Esprix, who thinks smilies are a wonderful thing for defusing sentences that could possibly be misinterpreted as something mean-spirited… * * * [Ask the Gay Guy!](http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001376.html) ---
**Author:** ![pashley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e0b2c6/32.png) [@pashley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pashley)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2000, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-pope-went-crazy/17718/67 "2000-03-13T22:34:00Z")
Neutorn Star: > [@](#): > > The only people on this board I have seen come out against gay marriage are Christians… See, here’s the Christian-bashing again. Hey NeutronDud, go back and read the headlines about Prop 22. The Mormons were also big backers of that legislation. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2000, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-pope-went-crazy/17718/68 "2000-03-13T23:54:00Z")
Esprix- The word heathen originally meant “dwellers on the heath”, in other words, country folk. In ancient times, and in some parts of the world, even to the present day, country folk were generally not as well educated as city dwellers, who had greater access to things like universities, libraries, and, after the invention of the printing press, books. They were also frequently ignorant of what was going on in the cities, and frequently didn’t give a damn, as they had more important things to worry about, such as, will locusts eat the crops again this year, and why are all of my cattle dying of hoof and mouth disease, while my neighbor’s cattle seem perfectly healthy. By extension, I use the term “heathen” as shorthand to describe those who are ignorant of the doctrines and terminology of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, and it was not intended as an insult. But I might as well have typed out “those who are ignorant of the doctrines and terminology of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.” It would have saved me the time and effort of having to write a whole 'nother post. A pox on you, heathen. 😉 * * * The trouble with Sir Launcelot is by the time he comes riding up, you’ve already married King Arthur. ---
**Author:** ![justwannano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ab992/32.png) [@justwannano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justwannano)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2000, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-pope-went-crazy/17718/69 "2000-03-14T00:38:00Z")
agisofia Where were you yesterday.When I was feebly trying to say what you just did. Talk about riding up late . ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2000, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-pope-went-crazy/17718/70 "2000-03-14T01:33:00Z")
[Moderator Hat: ON] A few days ago, justwannano said: > [@](#): > > Argue if you want you uneducated boob. He later said: > [@](#): > > I am not an expert but I Know an ignorant boob when I hear(see) one. I missed 'em both (I blame Gaudere for being on vacation and not catching it when I missed it 😉 ). Obviously, both of these are insults and neither of these are acceptable in Great Debates. Remember, folks, the only perfect person around here is Cecil. If you see something you think we missed, please _e-mail_ either Gaudere or I (or better yet, both). * * * David B, SDMB Great Debates Moderator [Moderator Hat: OFF] ---
**Author:** ![justwannano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ab992/32.png) [@justwannano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justwannano)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2000, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-pope-went-crazy/17718/71 "2000-03-14T04:01:00Z")
My appologies to Cecil The Board Moderators and all who abide here. The comment seemed appropriate at the time. It was not in my opinion as bad as the obvious insult of otto. My first comment that he lacked understanding was obviously not correct. he just didn’t give a damn. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2000, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-pope-went-crazy/17718/72 "2000-03-14T04:11:00Z")
Otto posts: > [@](#): > > :::yawn::: I’m done discussing the tangential issues. I’ve stated why I think my statements are appropriate to the thread and my esteemed opponent has stated the basis for **his** disagreement, so rather than have the thread degenerate further I’m taking a step back from it. > > So, what if the Pope went crazy, assuming that he isn’t already? The cardinals would lock him away until he died and pick a new, presumably less crazy one. WTF? Damnit, Otto, do I have to add sexism to your list of crimes against humanity? 😉 - (Not a boy named) Sue ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2000, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-pope-went-crazy/17718/73 "2000-03-14T07:41:00Z")
> [@](#): > > See, here’s the Christian-bashing again. Hey NeutronDud, go back and read the > headlines about Prop 22. The Mormons were also big backers of that legislation. I forgot the Mormons when I made my post. Their influence, however, is only on a very small area of the country. But I mean, really, come on pashley! Is that the only argument that you can muster up? That I’m “Christian-bashing?” Can I critisize your religion in ANY way that wouldn’t be “Christian-bashing?” In the OP, I asked a question about your faith and I was bashing. Then I say that maybe, just maybe because 80% of the people in this country are Christian and the Christian religion doesn’t like gays, that their religion has some influence on the law. And I’m bashing. And don’t think I don’t see the irony in the source of oppression complaining that THEY are opressed themselves! Give me a break. As far as I can tell, you’re the only one actually bashing anyone, what with the name-calling and all. Calling me NeutronDud really DOES make your argument that much more convincing, you know? * * * If you can not answer a man’s argument, all it not lost; you can still call him vile names. –Elbert Hubbard ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2000, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-pope-went-crazy/17718/74 "2000-03-14T09:25:00Z")
> [@](#): > > The Mormons were also big backers of that legislation. The Mormons aren’t Christians? News to them, I’m sure. > [@](#): > > The word heathen originally meant “dwellers on the heath”, in other words, country folk. In ancient times, and in some parts of the world, even to the present day, country folk were generally not as well > > educated as city dwellers, who had greater access to things like universities, libraries, and, after the invention of the printing press, books. They were also frequently ignorant of what was going on in the cities, and frequently didn’t give a damn, as they had more important things to worry about, such as, will locusts eat the crops again this year, and why are all of my cattle dying of hoof and mouth disease, while my neighbor’s cattle seem perfectly healthy. > > By extension, I use the term “heathen” as shorthand to describe those who are ignorant of the doctrines and terminology of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, and it was not intended as an insult. But I might as well have typed out “those who are ignorant of the doctrines and terminology of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.” > > It would have saved me the time and effort of having to write a whole 'nother post. Because of course you had no possible idea that anyone could ever take your use of the word “heathen” as an insult, because it’s never been used as such, and words don’t change in meaning from their origins **800 years ago** …sheesh. And Sue? Sorry about misidentifying you as a male. It really makes no difference to me what your sex is but I didn’t feel like clicking back a screen to double-check on whether you’d identified yourself. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2000, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-pope-went-crazy/17718/75 "2000-03-14T14:17:00Z")
> [@](#): > > The Mormons aren’t Christians? News to them, I’m sure That’s what I thought too, Otto. But then I really hardly know a damn thing about religion, so I figured this Christian guy would know more than I do about this type of thing. I guess I was wrong. Or rather he was wrong. * * * If you can not answer a man’s argument, all it not lost; you can still call him vile names. –Elbert Hubbard ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2000, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-pope-went-crazy/17718/76 "2000-03-14T15:10:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by agisofia: > > A pox on you, heathen. 😉 {hee hee} Well, despite your learned etymology of the word, when someone uses the word “heathen” in today’s context, it seems very obvious that person is looking far down his nose at someone else. Esprix * * * [Ask the Gay Guy!](http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001376.html) ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2000, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-pope-went-crazy/17718/77 "2000-03-14T15:12:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by pashley: > > See, here’s the Christian-bashing again. Hey NeutronDud, go back and read the headlines about Prop 22. The Mormons were also big backers of that legislation. Mormons aren’t Christian? Esprix * * * [Ask the Gay Guy!](http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001376.html) ---
**Author:** ![pashley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e0b2c6/32.png) [@pashley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pashley)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2000, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-pope-went-crazy/17718/78 "2000-03-14T16:07:00Z")
neutron star: > [@](#): > > But I mean, really, come on pashley! Is that the only argument that you can muster up? That I’m “Christian-bashing?” Can I critisize your religion in ANY way that wouldn’t be "Christian-bashing Sure, you can ask questions, but is it necessary to have a negative tone? When discussing anyones’ religion, tactfulness is called for. And as far as the Mormons, being Christians, yes, technically, they are, however, it’s safe to say that non-mormon Christians don’t believe that Jesus appeared to Joseph Smith. * * * Patrick Ashley “For those who believe, no evidence is necessary; for those who don’t believe, no evidence is enough.” -Unknown ---
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2000, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-pope-went-crazy/17718/79 "2000-03-14T16:13:00Z")
Pat: > [@](#): > > When discussing anyones’ religion, tactfulness is called for. And y’know, Pat, manny people feel the same way about discussions of sexuality. 'Course, I imagine there’s a difference there that most just don’t see. Waste Flick Lives! ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2000, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-pope-went-crazy/17718/80 "2000-03-14T16:41:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by GLWasteful: > > And y’know, Pat, manny people feel the same way about discussions of sexuality. > > 'Course, I imagine there’s a difference there that most just don’t see. He’s got a point there, Pash - you’ve said some pretty nasty, nasty things about others on this board, and didn’t seem to care much if it offended people (I’m thinking specifically of your little “joke” in one of the gay threds). Esprix * * * [Ask the Gay Guy!](http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001376.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-pope-went-crazy/17718.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-pope-went-crazy/17718.md?page=5)