# What if the POTUS used force to win a reelection? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 9, 2020, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-potus-used-force-to-win-a-reelection/920214 "2020-09-09T21:59:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-potus-used-force-to-win-a-reelection/920214/1 "2020-09-09T21:59:23Z")
By executive order or use of military or anything at his disposal this hypothetical POTUS is determined to be reelected. Doing things like detaining people, physically stopping people likely not to vote for him, even deporting them days before the election to where ever, anything goes. The vote comes in and lo and behold it works, but the attempts to suppress legal votes are so very obvious and many US citizens have to make their way back from other countries due to the mass deporting of it’s own citizens. What happens, does he win? ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-potus-used-force-to-win-a-reelection/920214/2 "2020-09-09T22:54:31Z")
Revolution? His side doesn’t own nearly all the guns or military. Congressional congress called to amend the constitution. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-potus-used-force-to-win-a-reelection/920214/3 "2020-09-09T23:51:52Z")
That may be a recourse, but by GQ is does he win the election? ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-potus-used-force-to-win-a-reelection/920214/4 "2020-09-09T23:58:38Z")
There is no winner in scenario. Its a constitutional crisis. A hit the reset button situation. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-potus-used-force-to-win-a-reelection/920214/5 "2020-09-09T23:59:35Z")
[Moderating] There really isn’t any factual answer to this question. Moving to IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2020, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-potus-used-force-to-win-a-reelection/920214/6 "2020-09-10T00:02:56Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > [Moderating] > > There really isn’t any factual answer to this question. Moving to IMHO. Thank’s for the moderation but is there really no factual answer? Can a POTUS do this and win the second term? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2020, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-potus-used-force-to-win-a-reelection/920214/7 "2020-09-10T00:10:33Z")
Current “wisdom” says the only remedy for Presidential shenanigans is impeachment or an election. So yeah, he’d win the election. And if anyone lower on the totem pole was in trouble he could pardon them or commute their sentences. The entire system is incredibly stupid as we’ve learned. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2020, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-potus-used-force-to-win-a-reelection/920214/8 "2020-09-10T00:18:10Z")
Or revolution or civil war. Both of those have happened so they are not off the table. Unconventional? Maybe yes maybe no. ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2020, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-potus-used-force-to-win-a-reelection/920214/9 "2020-09-10T00:22:41Z")
I think something like this is more likely: > **[1927 Liberian general election](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1927_Liberian_general_election)** > > Charles D. B. King > TWP > Charles D. B. King > TWP > General elections were held in Liberia in 1927. In the presidential election the result was a victory for Charles D. B. King of the True Whig Party, who was re-elected for a third term after defeating Thomas J. R. Faulkner of the People's Party. > The elections have been referred to as "the most rigged ever" by Francis Johnson-Morris, a modern head of the country's National Elections Commission, and were listed in the Guinness Book of Records as the ... > [@](#): > > The elections were referred to as “the most rigged ever” by Francis Johnson-Morris, a modern head of the country’s [National Elections Commission](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Elections_Commission_(Liberia)),[[2]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1927_Liberian_general_election#cite_note-ND-2) and also made it into the _[Guinness Book of Records](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinness_World_Records)_ as the most fraudulent election ever reported in history,[[3]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1927_Liberian_general_election#cite_note-3)[[4]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1927_Liberian_general_election#cite_note-4) as despite there being fewer than 15,000 registered voters, King received around 243,000 votes, compared to 9,000 for Faulkner.[[2]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1927_Liberian_general_election#cite_note-ND-2) Trump cannot use the military or police to defraud an election, especially since he’s calling soldiers “losers”. Trump could use armed “poll observers” though. Maybe that’s one reason he’s so opposed to voting by mail? It’s hard to intimidate someone if they don’t have to go to the ballot box. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2020, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-potus-used-force-to-win-a-reelection/920214/10 "2020-09-10T00:23:36Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > even deporting them days before the election to where ever Who is he deporting, here? You can’t deport native-born citizens and non-citizens can’t vote. So…naturalized citizens? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2020, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-potus-used-force-to-win-a-reelection/920214/11 "2020-09-10T00:27:06Z")
The President is allowed to do whatever she/he is not stopped from doing-local, state, Federal and Constitutional law notwithstanding. Laws do not rise up on their own to enforce themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2020, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-potus-used-force-to-win-a-reelection/920214/12 "2020-09-10T00:30:54Z")
Good luck deporting US citizens elsewhere. Right now, very few countries are allowing our covid-ridden citizenry into their countries. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2020, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-potus-used-force-to-win-a-reelection/920214/13 "2020-09-10T00:35:58Z")
I expect that trump’s “goon squads” (official and unofficial) will seize uncounted ballots as part of a sham “voter fraud” investigation. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2020, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-potus-used-force-to-win-a-reelection/920214/14 "2020-09-10T01:53:32Z")
> [@Kimera757](#): > > Trump could use armed “poll observers” though. Isn’t it illegal for the observers to be armed? > [@elfkin477](#): > > So…naturalized citizens? I’m fairly certain naturalized citizens cannot be deported either. First, they’d have to be stripped of their citizenship by the government proving that said US citizenship was obtained fraudulently. As far as the military going full bore and using force to decide the election, not going to happen. Even those service members who still support the current occupant of the Oval Office will not take part in that, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2020, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-potus-used-force-to-win-a-reelection/920214/15 "2020-09-10T08:08:12Z")
Depending on just how OP’s hypothetical president “stole” the election, it may be likely that the same party gets or retains a “stolen” majority in one or both houses of Congress too. So just as our current president can do no wrong because he has the support of a majority of the Senate, likewise OP’s hypothetical president would probably have the support of a majority in one or both houses of Congress. So there would be no chance of impeaching him. If the Military, or the Secret Service, or the Immigration or Border Patrol police or whoever, choose to follow whatever orders the hypothetical president gives, then what’s to stop them from grabbing people off the street and throwing them on an airplane to somewhere else? (Okay, there may be a problem that the destination countries don’t accept them. Then what?) That sounds very reminiscent of the [Palmer Raids](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmer_Raids) of 1919-1920. ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2020, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-potus-used-force-to-win-a-reelection/920214/16 "2020-09-10T13:00:07Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Isn’t it illegal for the observers to be armed? Isn’t it illegal to intimidate people at the voting stations? Furthermore, they can say something about “Second Amendment Rights”, “Heller Decision”, they’re concealed carry so they’re not intimidating anyone, or they could go unarmed but be really belligerant. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2020, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-potus-used-force-to-win-a-reelection/920214/17 "2020-09-10T23:55:05Z")
> [@Kimera757](#): > > > [@Monty](#): > > > > Isn’t it illegal for the observers to be armed? > > Isn’t it illegal to intimidate people at the voting stations? > > … There is the saying ‘it’s only illegal if you get caught’. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-potus-used-force-to-win-a-reelection/920214/18 "2020-09-11T00:06:10Z")
It would come down to three things. 1. John Roberts’s opinion on the matter. 2. Neil Gorsuch’s opinion on the matter. 3. The details of how force was used and what the vote count is at the point when 1 and 2 are asked to make their ruling. In the less likely, but not entirely out of the realm of possibility, event that Trump pulls an Andrew Jackson should SCOTUS decide against him, then it would be up to the military to enforce any SCOTUS order. I assume that at that point Trump would have the civilian LEOs such as the ICE, Border Patrol, etc. on his side. I also assume that if it came down to a shooting match between the military and civilian LEOs that the military would win. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-potus-used-force-to-win-a-reelection/920214/19 "2020-09-11T03:46:00Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > In the less likely, but not entirely out of the realm of possibility, event that Trump pulls an Andrew Jackson should SCOTUS decide against him, then it would be up to the military to enforce any SCOTUS order. I believe it would be up to a federal law enforcement agency, not the military, to enforce such an order. My vote (sorry) would be for that to be the Secret Service. They are tasked with protecting the president, but that is not their sole function. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-potus-used-force-to-win-a-reelection/920214/20 "2020-09-11T05:02:28Z")
Hypothetical here. Let’s suppose the President uses various illegal means such as described in the OP and successfully gets elected. Let’s say we have a properly functioning government and he is held accountable for his actions. He’s arrested, tried, impeached, and removed from office. What happens to the Vice President? Let’s assume for the sake of argument, that the Vice President was not involved in any of the illegal acts that led to his election. But the acts that led to the election were determined to have been illegal. Does that illegality negate the outcome of the election, even for a person who is innocent of any crime? Or does the illegality only apply to the individual who committed the illegal acts? Is there any legal process for removing a person from office due to illegal procedures that they were not responsible for? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-potus-used-force-to-win-a-reelection/920214.md?page=2)