# What if the printing press had been invented in antiquity? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 14, 2011, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-printing-press-had-been-invented-in-antiquity/599633 "2011-10-14T14:33:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-printing-press-had-been-invented-in-antiquity/599633/61 "2011-10-17T23:46:13Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > But we’re talking 500 BC, not significantly later. This is right in the middle of the Spring and Autumn period, prime time for the spread of the printed word. But the Chinese hadn’t invented paper yet\*, then, they were still writing on bamboo strips . . . Still, if that could be overcome, we are talking about the time of the Hundred Schools of Thought or whatever they called it, the impact of print on the intellectual life of the time would have been **awesome.** - [Paper was invented 105 A.D., during the Han Dynasty.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_paper) ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-printing-press-had-been-invented-in-antiquity/599633/62 "2011-10-18T07:21:29Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But the Chinese hadn’t invented paper yet\*, then, they were still writing on bamboo strips . . . They had vellum, didn’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-printing-press-had-been-invented-in-antiquity/599633/63 "2011-10-18T11:20:42Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > They had vellum, didn’t they? Vellum is very, very expensive. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-printing-press-had-been-invented-in-antiquity/599633/64 "2011-10-18T13:54:11Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > Vellum is very, very expensive. Yes . . . vellum (or parchment) is like really thin leather. Animal-skin product. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-printing-press-had-been-invented-in-antiquity/599633/65 "2011-10-18T16:58:47Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > Vellum is very, very expensive. If the cost of printing on vellum is significantly less than the cost of using scribes, then that won’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-printing-press-had-been-invented-in-antiquity/599633/66 "2011-10-18T17:13:17Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > If the cost of printing on vellum is significantly less than the cost of using scribes, then that won’t matter. It will still prevent the press from reaching its full potential – it’s not just the **cost,** it’s the **supply.** There’s an upper limit to the number of animals a country will slaughter in a year, and in all but desert countries it will be much lower than the number of trees they can cut that year. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-printing-press-had-been-invented-in-antiquity/599633/67 "2011-10-18T18:25:46Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It will still prevent the press from reaching its full potential – it’s not just the **cost,** it’s the **supply.** There’s an upper limit to the number of animals a country will slaughter in a year, and in all but desert countries it will be much lower than the number of trees they can cut that year. Very true, but cost is linked to supply, and consider the populations of ancient cities like Rome, which, with its 1 million population in the time of Augustus, required a lot of feeding. Also consider that executions were rather common, so vellum from human skin might be readily available. Besides, are you not assuming they know they can make paper from trees? ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-printing-press-had-been-invented-in-antiquity/599633/68 "2011-10-18T18:45:15Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > If the cost of printing on vellum is significantly less than the cost of using scribes, then that won’t matter. This doesn’t make any sense. Printing requires a capital investment whose cost is amortized over the life of the press. The more you print, the lower the marginal cost per item printed since the fixed cost gets spread out over more units produced. If the supply of vellum us low and the price is high, then you don’t get enough scale to make the capital investment worthwhile in the first place. It’s not hard to imagine a scenario where it would have been more economical to hire a scribe than to invest in a printing press. ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-printing-press-had-been-invented-in-antiquity/599633/69 "2011-10-18T18:57:26Z")
Are we assuming the invention is essentially Gutenberg’s press? If so, the invention would have to come with significant mining and metallurgy advances. Gutenberg’s greatest contribution was not the idea of movable type (He wasn’t the first to think of that) but the exact alloy that made type easily moldable and yet durable for years of reuse. I doubt the Aegean cultures knew where to find a lot of antimony. Assuming they had the materials and worked out something like paper, one of the major differences to come about would be in religion. By the time of Christ and Mohammed, their lives would be well documented by multiple contemporaries, rather than being written up years later in many fragments later assembled into scripture. Personally, I think their fame would be shortlived and ridiculed by the newspapers. On the other hand, if the miracles actually happened and a lot of the participants were interviewed… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-printing-press-had-been-invented-in-antiquity/599633/70 "2011-10-18T19:23:55Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Also consider that executions were rather common, so vellum from human skin might be readily available. Only if you’re printing the _Necronomicon._ ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-printing-press-had-been-invented-in-antiquity/599633/71 "2011-10-18T21:05:12Z")
> [@Saltire](#): > > I doubt the Aegean cultures knew where to find a lot of antimony. You’d be mistaken. Antimony was well known in the ancient world. Read the [Wiki article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimony). ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-printing-press-had-been-invented-in-antiquity/599633/72 "2011-10-18T22:06:31Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > If the cost of printing on vellum is significantly less than the cost of using scribes, then that won’t matter. > [@Quartz](#): > > Also consider that executions were rather common, so vellum from human skin might be readily available. [Charlton Heston]Soylent vellum, it’s made from scribes![/CH] ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-printing-press-had-been-invented-in-antiquity/599633/73 "2011-10-18T23:31:01Z")
> [@ModernPrimate](#): > > I think you are crazy. It’s not an “obvious idea” at all. **Moveable type** is not an obvious idea. But, if you can reproduce an image with a seal-stamp or a textile-block, you’re **printing.** It doesn’t take much imagination to see that you can reproduce a page of text the same way – if you want to take the time to carve a [wood block.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodblock_printing) Getting from there to moveable type, that probably took more than ordinary imagination. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-printing-press-had-been-invented-in-antiquity/599633.md?page=3)