# What if the recounts go Clinton's way? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 26, 2016, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087 "2016-11-26T21:31:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/41 "2016-11-27T07:07:25Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > This is pure spite and sour grapes. Nitpick: this is the opposite of sour grapes. Sour grapes would be Hillary Clinton going around saying, “I didn’t really want to be president anyway; it’s not that important, and Trump is going to have a miserable four years.” The expression comes from an Aesop fable called “The Fox and the Grapes.” After a fox tries everything her can to get at some grapes hanging from a branch, he gives up, and says, “They are probably sour anyway.” When you lose a contest, then denigrate the prize as something not worth having, that’s sour grapes. This is not what Clinton and Stein are engaging in. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/42 "2016-11-27T08:45:49Z")
> [@ultimate11](#): > > If any of the recounting states confirms Trump won, we can stop worrying about this election, can’t we? You should have stopped worrying about it when Podesta stepped out and told everyone to go home. Any thinking that the result might change now is delusional. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/43 "2016-11-27T09:04:18Z")
> [@Crisstti](#): > > Why not just stick to paper ballots then. No posible hacking there. Germany and the U.K. use paper ballots, marked with pencil and counted by hand. An explanation I’ve heard on the Internet for why this is impossible in the U.S., paraphrased: “Something like that can work in a little dinky country like U.K., but do you know how big a state like Florida is? Do you know how long it would take to count that many ballots?” :smack: ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/44 "2016-11-27T09:58:14Z")
If the recount goes Clinton’s way, then as far as I’m concerned, all well and good. But I have one rule. No “found” ballots. That seems to be a news story during every recount that Republicans lose. ---
**Author:** ![Jane\_Smythe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f04885/32.png) [@Jane\_Smythe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jane_Smythe)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/45 "2016-11-27T09:58:57Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Normally there wouldn’t be any harm. > > But right now the political situation in this country is so toxic. I don’t want to see open warfare on our streets. I think most people are aware just how tense things are. > > Challenging a clear cut win just isn’t done in the US. Look back all the way to Roosevelt. We accept the initial results of our elections. The loser graciously concedes. There’s a orderly transfer of power. Something every American can be proud of. > > The only exception was Bush/Gore where the result hinged on one state, Florida. Even then Gore took the high road and accepted the courts decision. Yes, but although GW was a pretty pathetic choice for prez, he is no Trump, who is an outright disgrace and a humiliation for the US around the world. Clinton is not asking for recounts or directing them. She has graciously accepted defeat. However, if recounts prove in her favor with the EC, we and the rest of the world would welcome it w/o reserve. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/46 "2016-11-27T12:55:42Z")
I’m no fan of voting machines (for precisely this kind of reason - paper is harder to tamper with). However, with the machines not being connected, hacking _enough_ of them to sway an election is still a significant effort. Voting lasts for about 12 hours. Say you can get one or two people per minute through each machine (I think that’s wildly optimistic, given that there’s more than just the president to be voted for, but lets run with it). So… maybe a thousand votes on each machine. I don’t think you’d want to “turn” more than about a hundred of those at a time, otherwise it would be blatantly obvious. So for every hundred machines you hack, you can get about 20,000 extra vote margin - 500+ machines would have needed to be compromised in order to turn a slender Clinton margin into the result we see at the moment, and of course BEFORE the election you don’t know precisely which States you need to go after, or how many votes you need to turn. You’re probably looking at multiple thousands of machines individually compromised by on-the-ground operatives. That’s certainly not impossible for a country like Russia, but it’d be a shit-ton of resources spent for uncertain payout and massively bad consequences if discovered ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/47 "2016-11-27T13:06:41Z")
I think we should routinely have recounts of a couple of random states. Just to make it less appealing to tamper with the machines. I don’t expect the result to change, but I think it’s worth doing anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/48 "2016-11-27T13:18:24Z")
Voting-machine tampering could much more easily be done by the manufacturer, on any scale desired. Have any manufacturers done so? We don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/49 "2016-11-27T13:18:25Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I feel much better after reading Marc Elias’ post. The Clinton campaign’s chief counsel. They been checking the election results very closely. His post is the most rational voice I’ve heard. > > It’s reassuring to know there shouldn’t be any huge surprises waiting in a recount. > > The nasty, commie Russians didn’t steal the election for Trump. 😃 **Ace** , who did you vote for this year? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/50 "2016-11-27T13:23:14Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I think we should routinely have recounts of a couple of random states. Just to make it less appealing to tamper with the machines. I don’t expect the result to change, but I think it’s worth doing anyway. I think we should have paper ballots that should be counted in public using accepted accounting practices in the first place. Then we should have recounts whenever the results are sufficiently close to make sure errors haven’t taken place. We may not have the answer overnight that so many people won’t accept anyway but we will eliminate the uncertainty that will be inevitable as long as we have these indirect and artificial means of vote counting. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/51 "2016-11-27T13:42:08Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > So for every hundred machines you hack, you can get about 20,000 extra vote margin - 500+ machines would have needed to be compromised in order to turn a slender Clinton margin into the result we see at the moment, and of course BEFORE the election you don’t know precisely which States you need to go after, or how many votes you need to turn. Plus, right up to the declaration, all the media and most other commentators were assuring us: ‘CLINTON IS HEADING FOR A _LANDSLIDE_ ! — Donald doesn’t have even the minutest chance !’ & ‘Sucks to Trump !’ The amount of tampering to overthrow _no chance_ into a _win_ would overshoot a slender margin; and that to overthrow a _slender margin_ would overshoot into amazing Stalinesque levels of support for the Donald. ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/52 "2016-11-27T14:50:24Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You should have stopped worrying about it when Podesta stepped out and told everyone to go home. Any thinking that the result might change now is delusional. It’s been said a few times in this thread that changing the outcome is not what’s most important here. Finding out if there was _any_ hacking is the main objective. Isn’t that something you’d want to know? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/53 "2016-11-27T15:44:14Z")
> [@Honey](#): > > It’s been said a few times in this thread that changing the outcome is not what’s most important here. Finding out if there was _any_ hacking is the main objective. > > Isn’t that something you’d want to know? 😕 That’'s fine. I don’t mind the recounting, but too many people on this supposedly-intellectual board are clinging to the false hope that Clinton still has a chance. That maybe, just maybe, the recount will go her way and she’ll pull out a win. It ain’t gonna happen, I guarantee it, and the sooner people accept that, the sooner this place will quit looking like a nutty left-wing version of InfoWars. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/54 "2016-11-27T15:54:28Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Yes, it’s to PC World, and it quotes the professor of computer science at University of Michigan who has explicitly said that even if it is not connected to the Internet, it can still be compromised. > > ETA: Here is another article with the same professor, where he says it probably was NOT hacked, but that it needs to be checked, because it can be done. So the voting machines are not some tower of security. > > [Prof. Halderman: US Election 'Probably Not' Hacked, but We Won't Know Unless We Check - Business Insider](http://www.businessinsider.com/halderman-us-election-probably-not-hacked-clinton-trump-stein-2016-11) Ok. Read that too. And have read about e-cig USB chargers downloading viruses. Sure, it can be done. But it would have to be a massive conspiracy. Hmmm… now you have me thinking about it dammit. The way to do it would to give out free cell phone chargers (that down load the malware) that only plug into USB ports. Give, or leave them at County Gov offices. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/55 "2016-11-27T16:22:31Z")
Despite my horror of the woman — and fancy-schamcy unamerican desire not to go in a nuclear holocaust to prove her toughness — part of me would be delighted to have her steal the election: it would force the US on it’s course to comforting unimportance — or even break-up, where in future results are perpetually bickered over and no leader is universally accepted as having won; and it would teach America’s Youth a very important moral lesson that will serve them well in any future: _If you bitch and whine long enough, roll around screaming, and threaten to wet yourself, your parents are eventually obligated to do as you wish._ ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/56 "2016-11-27T16:52:58Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > If you have a lopsided victory, you don’t lose by “only” 2 million votes, you win the popular vote. You bet your sweet ass that if Hillary was the apparent winner in these states that the Republicans would be just fine with a recount, especially if it successfully reversed the outcome. The fact that the recount is happening proves why the EC is important it’s very easy to miscount a large number of votes. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/57 "2016-11-27T17:42:35Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > The fact that the recount is happening proves why the EC is important it’s very easy to miscount a large number of votes. A recount is happening because Jill Stein asked for it. Thus far, no one seems to have any actual evidence of Russians hacking the election or of miscounting of “a large number of votes” or anything like that. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/58 "2016-11-27T17:57:58Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > **Ace** , who did you vote for this year? Trump’s outbursts and poor debates convinced me to vote Clinton. She seemed the best of two terrible choices. A lot of people felt that way. That’s why Obama is working so hard to prop Trump up. A article today claims Trump and Obama are in regular contact. Obama met with him in the WH and gives him advice. Trump needs a lot of support and public confidence to do the job. It’s a terrible situation but we’re stuck with it until 2020. > **[Conway: Trump and Obama have been ‘talking regularly’ | CNN Politics](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2016/11/27/politics/donald-trump-obama-phone-call/index.html)** > > President-elect Donald Trump and President Barack Obama have been in regular communication, a top Trump aide said Sunday. It seems like every modern President gets tested very early. Putin may make a new aggressive move in the Ukraine or Syria. We may have a terror attack. Something will test the new administration. Public confidence in our new gov. is crucial. This recount won’t help the situation. But I guess we got to get through it. Then get back to focusing on our new President and how his administration is staffed. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/59 "2016-11-27T18:05:44Z")
> [@Crisstti](#): > > Why not just stick to paper ballots then. No posible hacking there. The ballot I filled out was fed into a computer to be scanned & counted. How do we know it was done right? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/60 "2016-11-27T18:24:52Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I think we should have paper ballots that should be counted in public using accepted accounting practices in the first place. Then we should have recounts whenever the results are sufficiently close to make sure errors haven’t taken place. We may not have the answer overnight that so many people won’t accept anyway but we will eliminate the uncertainty that will be inevitable as long as we have these indirect and artificial means of vote counting. I would be delighted by that outcome, but I don’t think there’s any way to get there from here. Whereas perhaps we can have a custom of recounts and laws requiring a paper trail. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087.md?page=4)