# What if the recounts go Clinton's way? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 26, 2016, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087 "2016-11-26T21:31:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/101 "2016-11-30T14:57:35Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > No, I do not agree with his claim because he has no evidence to support it. However, there is no evidence disproving it either, because no one has actually tried to find out how many people vote illegally. Going over a large sample of confirmed votes nationwide and tallying how many were illegally cast would tell us something we need to know. It’s not Clinton’s, or Democrats’, or liberals’ job to disprove it. Trump made the claim, Trump can back it up. Them’s the breaks. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/102 "2016-11-30T15:13:12Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Yes, it is. Ergo, why they didn’t bother with recounts in NH, Nevada, Minnesota, California, Virginia or any other state Clinton won. Sure, we could assume any tampering motivated equally in favor of both sides, and do a random audit of all states. OR we could assume that it fits the pattern of Russia hacking the DNC’s emails to give Trump and edge, in which case it would be really dumb to audit states where Clinton expected (and got) a blowout victory. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/103 "2016-11-30T15:54:15Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > It’s not Clinton’s, or Democrats’, or liberals’ job to disprove it. Trump made the claim, Trump can back it up. Them’s the breaks. By the same token, one cannot prove that elections are conducted with the utmost integrity. Ballot security is poor at many precincts. Absentee ballot fraud happens, people vote who shouldn’t, or where they shouldn’t, residency requirements are pretty much a joke by design, and I haven’t even gotten to hacking yet. Strangely, Democrats are very concerned about the hacking part, despite no evidence that hacking has ever taken place, anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/104 "2016-11-30T16:17:34Z")
We get it, **adaher** , you’re just asking questions. ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/105 "2016-11-30T16:37:18Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > I’m no fan of voting machines (for precisely this kind of reason - paper is harder to tamper with). However, with the machines not being connected, hacking _enough_ of them to sway an election is still a significant effort. > > Voting lasts for about 12 hours. Say you can get one or two people per minute through each machine (I think that’s wildly optimistic, given that there’s more than just the president to be voted for, but lets run with it). So… maybe a thousand votes on each machine. I’m not saying I don’t agree with you, but your estimates are (at least in some areas) faulty. In my county (Dupage, IL) if you voted early and you wanted to vote on a paper ballot, you had no choice but to go to the County Election Commission office. All early voting at the more-conveniently located satellite locations was by voting machine only. I’m not sure f this was true for the whole state or just for my county. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/106 "2016-11-30T17:03:46Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > As an aside, how is it that so many people are using this phrase after the election, apparently with no understanding of what it means? > > It’s like if Clinton had won the election, and Democrats went around crowing that Donald Trump had gotten a meal fit for a king. I mean it in the way of Democrats claiming they only want to audit the vote, and not as a way in hoping the election results are overturned. It matters not either way since you know what’s meant. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Sure, we could assume any tampering motivated equally in favor of both sides, and do a random audit of all states. OR we could assume that it fits the pattern of Russia hacking the DNC’s emails to give Trump and edge, in which case it would be really dumb to audit states where Clinton expected (and got) a blowout victory. Let’s just call it what it is: “Clinton didn’t win, therefore is reasonable to ‘audit’ the vote in states she lost.” Just accept that she lost the election. Four years ago, this boards conservatives were at least somewhat gracious and didn’t throw what amounts to a temper tantrum. Even when Obama won precincts with 100% (or more) of the vote, you didn’t see this level of meltdown we’re seeing now. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/107 "2016-11-30T18:23:30Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Just accept that she lost the election. Four years ago, this boards conservatives were at least somewhat gracious and didn’t throw what amounts to a temper tantrum. Even when Obama won precincts with 100% (or more) of the vote, you didn’t see this level of meltdown we’re seeing now. This, coming from someone that can’t even win graciously? Ok ya betcha. And you have evidence, or a cite, or something other than bovine fecal matter for that more than 100% claim, right? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/108 "2016-11-30T18:42:49Z")
So, how about longer-term predictions? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/109 "2016-11-30T19:24:09Z")
Conservatives were so gracious when Obama won. Other than repeatedly denying he was an American citizen, they never said a word against him. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/110 "2016-11-30T20:09:00Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > We get it, **adaher** , you’re just asking questions. This is a question that definitely deserves an answer. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/111 "2016-11-30T20:21:52Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > This is a question that definitely deserves an answer. Still waiting for your answer to my question. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/112 "2016-11-30T21:15:06Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > This is a question that definitely deserves an answer. So because you think some Democrat (who, exactly?) made an unsubstantiated claim that Russia determined the election via hacking, you feel on safe ground to call into question the entire election – presumably right down to your local dog catcher – with no actual evidence to point to this being the case. You’re making Donald Trump look like the reasonable one. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/113 "2016-11-30T21:30:09Z")
> [@Anny\_Middon](#): > > I’m not saying I don’t agree with you, but your estimates are (at least in some areas) faulty. > > In my county (Dupage, IL) if you voted early and you wanted to vote on a paper ballot, you had no choice but to go to the County Election Commission office. All early voting at the more-conveniently located satellite locations was by voting machine only. > > I’m not sure f this was true for the whole state or just for my county. It’s true, I didn’t factor in early voting. Not knowing exactly what the distribution of paper/electronic early voting stations is, it’s difficult to tell how that would effect hack-potential, but I _think_ that if there are enough early voting stations around of each type to make suitable comparisons, compromising an early-voting machine could certainly help you ballot-box-stuff more easily … but it would be even more obvious afterwards what you’d done, if any sort of analysis was done on the results. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/114 "2016-12-01T04:16:12Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > No, I do not agree with his claim because he has no evidence to support it. However, there is no evidence disproving it either, because no one has actually tried to find out how many people vote illegally. Going over a large sample of confirmed votes nationwide and tallying how many were illegally cast would tell us something we need to know. Let’s test the proposition that Republican counties always find a way to include thousands of fake absentee ballots while we are at it. Adaher, time after time, year after year, investigations of illegal voting are untaken and little, if any, such activity is found. Year after year, Republicans insist on investigating public Democratic officials for malfeasance and illegal activity and, again, almost always find nothing. I have to hand it to the Republicans, though. When one of theirs is fingered, they push him off the roof. Quick, clean, effective. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/115 "2016-12-01T04:20:41Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Conservatives were so gracious when Obama won. Other than repeatedly denying he was an American citizen, they never said a word against him. You didn’t see right wing America destroying property, assaulting commies, or demanding play-doh instead of attending college classes either. Imagine if right wing nuts were holding up “Rape Michelle” signs post election. That’s what your side does. Stop pretending your political tribe is better. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/116 "2016-12-01T04:25:43Z")
quick response to Ravenman above. Ravenman claims that when a politician is found to be dishonest or, even, incompetent, people will no longer take his advice or leadership. I say that he is wrong, based on the unbelievable consistency of some voters to vote Republican following so many decades of failed and false leadership. They keep giving Republicans opportunity to screw things up even worse than ever, while, of course, blaming all of America’s problems on Liberals. ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/117 "2016-12-01T14:40:43Z")
Some frame this as possibly stealing the election from the winner. It is actually about determining the winner. The winner is determined when each state certifies their vote and their winning electors vote in the electoral college. The concession speech, the news media projected winners are nice. But if those states, using their internal rules for recounts, all change to Clinton, nothing will have been stolen. As for the transition - it would be just as suggested upthread - for the sake of time, the Obama officials would stay on to allow for the appropriate change over. Since her policy goals are closely aligned with his, that won’t be terribly disruptive. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/118 "2016-12-01T14:48:26Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > quick response to Ravenman above. Ravenman claims that when a politician is found to be dishonest or, even, incompetent, people will no longer take his advice or leadership. > > I say that he is wrong, based on the unbelievable consistency of some voters to vote Republican following so many decades of failed and false leadership. They keep giving Republicans opportunity to screw things up even worse than ever, while, of course, blaming all of America’s problems on Liberals. How much clearer can I possibly make this? There are people who will vote for any Republican, there are people who will vote for any Democrat. But the people **as a whole** do not rush to support a party or candidate who has been embarrassed and discredited. The original point I was rebutting was that Americans, as a whole, will rush to support voter ID laws. I never said that Republicans would drop their support of voter ID laws. I’m saying that independents and Democrats will not suddenly adopt a pro-voter ID policy if it is shown that Republicans tinkered with the ballot box. Jesus Christ, this should be common sense. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/119 "2016-12-01T15:35:42Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > The original point I was rebutting was that Americans, as a whole, will rush to support voter ID laws. I never said that Republicans would drop their support of voter ID laws. I’m saying that independents and Democrats will not suddenly adopt a pro-voter ID policy if it is shown that Republicans tinkered with the ballot box. You know voter ID laws are wildly popular, right? They’re supported by a majority of Republicans, but also a majority of independents, and … please sit down, this may come as a shock … a majority of Democrats as well. > **[Four in Five Americans Support Voter ID Laws, Early Voting](https://news.gallup.com/poll/194741/four-five-americans-support-voter-laws-early-voting.aspx)** > > As partisan-fueled court battles over state voting laws shape the 2016 political landscape and beyond, four in five Americans support both early voting and voter ID laws. A smaller majority of 63% support automatic voter registration. ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087/120 "2016-12-01T16:31:47Z")
If voter fraud that can be stopped with a photo ID is a problem, we should fix it. Set an implementation date far enough into the future that you will have a few chances to warn people that they won’t be eligible in two years. Send every registered voter a letter with a no-cost method for him/her to report that they have one of the acceptable forms of ID. For cards not returned or returned indicating they don’t have an ID, implement an aggressive plan to issue these people IDs at no cost and with no qualification. That should include an in-home visit to issue an ID as a last step. For new registration, issue an ID - for free - when they register if they don’t have an acceptable form. That will solve the problem without undue burden. Will it end enough voter fraud to be worth the cost? That is an argument for the people who want the ID to make. My opinion that the biggest threat to the integrity of the election process in the voting methods that can be done remotely where you don’t know if grandpa is voting or if his caregiver is voting for him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-recounts-go-clintons-way/773087.md?page=7)