# What if the Russians didn't hack the DNC? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 18, 2017, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-russians-didnt-hack-the-dnc/793990 "2017-08-18T16:46:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-russians-didnt-hack-the-dnc/793990/41 "2017-08-19T18:31:07Z")
I could readily buy that Russia influenced the election through misleading and false news, just because I take it as given that a great many Americans are dumb. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-russians-didnt-hack-the-dnc/793990/42 "2017-08-19T18:33:15Z")
Even if we just accept it as a hypothetical it’s largely an irrelevant side show. It doesn’t negate any of the evidence about Russian hacking efforts directed at state level election sites to include voter databases. Evidence of a Russian disinformation campaign via social media, in accordance with practices we’ve seen them employ against our NATO allies before, doesn’t disappear. It doesn’t negate allegations that the Russians were behind the public release of the information. Whether it was an inside job or a hack the Russians could have a central role in both the collection and dissemination of the emails for their own ends. It doesn’t negate the issue of the meeting between Trump campaign staff and the Russians to gather information that was never specified as being a result of those hacks. The DNC email server information has no bearing on allegations of improper channeling of Russian funds to the Trump campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-russians-didnt-hack-the-dnc/793990/43 "2017-08-19T20:38:16Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’m sure the Trump administration would welcome the opportunity to have a full and complete investigation which would clear their names. Yes, it’s too bad that the DNC obstructed the opportunity to have one. The refusal to allow the server to be independently examined certainly suggests one of two possibilities: Either the server would clear the Russians and the Trump campaign, or there’s evidence on there of the DNC doing something even worse. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-russians-didnt-hack-the-dnc/793990/44 "2017-08-20T00:39:21Z")
> [@igor\_frankensteen](#): > > Best post about this huge mess so far. > > I want to add as well, that Russia under the ex-KGB leader (read up on Soviet propaganda programs and techniques to understand how Putin likes to work) ALSO has a very deep and long standing program of undermining trust in OTHER NATIONS intelligence operations, by the exact means being used by The Nation and other Right Wing propaganda fonts here in the US. > > There has been a LOT more than just hacking going on, for a very long time. Cyber warfare is just like modern guerrilla/terror-based warfare, in that in addition to overt efforts such as hacking and publishing secrets, and overt acts such as pushing “alternate facts” and directly manufactured propaganda versions of events, there are also Russian agents here and abroad, who are pretending to be average Americans, voicing personal opinions that are derisive of the genuinely factual reports coming from untainted sources. In short, there are people who are paid by Russia to go online, even in forums such as this, and pretend to be Americans who are certain that Russia and Putin are as innocent as pure snow is white. > > They USE the clumsiness and foolishness and occasional mistakes of the people they are working to undermine, to persuade the rest of us to throw out the ENTIRE tub of bathwater without even bothering to check for babies of any kind. It’s the same trick they used to great effect back in the 1960’s and 1970’s, helping the Left in the US to undermine the conservative government, just as they are now manipulating the Right in the US to undermine the conservatives and moderates. > > Going back to the opening post, asking “what if there was no hack?” Is worse than a mistake, it is itself a propaganda attack. I am not going to accuse the OP of being a Russian plant, that actually doesn’t matter, even as it didn’t matter that some of the people on the Left back in the sixties were led to act on the Soviet Union’s behalf as dupes, were not themselves traitors. But make no mistake, the act of casting doubt on established facts, and then calling for everyone to start attacking each other rather than recognize and deal with the ongoing Russian efforts to gain advantage in various places, is part of the Russian plan. \*‘Here, in fact, we have the ultimate in cynicism which reveals the irrefutable guilt of the accused – I refer to his so-called escape from captivity and his “voluntary” return to his country! Who would believe that a man who has been offered “gold and any horse thou wilt” would abandon all that and voluntarily return home? How could he possibly do a thing like that?’ ‘There can, surely be only one explanation: Prince Igor was recruited by the Polovtsian intelligence service and sent back to undermine the Kievan state…!’ \* \*\*In The First Circle \*\* — The Mock Trial ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-russians-didnt-hack-the-dnc/793990/45 "2017-08-20T03:35:44Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Did no one think it was newsworthy or interesting or worth discussing? The Russia thing hasn’t been interesting in many months. Not sure if it matters much either way. If there wasn’t a hack then Trump’s presidency is still in shambles, and it doesn’t preclude him from being involved with Russia in other ways. The biggest effect might be if the info was leaked by a Bernie sympathizer, then America won’t get UHC for another 50 years. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-russians-didnt-hack-the-dnc/793990/46 "2017-08-20T05:54:57Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > The idea that the Russians were behind such a hack seems to be nothing but an evidence-free conspiracy theory. The idea that there was a hack at all relies on an unsupported assertion by interested parties, while those with the actual knowledge say it was a leak and not a hack. The report the FBI issued on the other supposed Russian hacking relied entirely on the idea that Russian tor exit nodes, which would be used by someone pretending to be Russian, must be being used by actual Russians. Oddly enough, this entire paragraph is evidence-free. Whenever you’re ready to support it with, you know, evidence…otherwise it’s yet more hot air. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-russians-didnt-hack-the-dnc/793990.md?page=2)