# What if the US military lost all its satellites? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 1, 2019, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-military-lost-all-its-satellites/828770 "2019-02-01T05:06:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-military-lost-all-its-satellites/828770/1 "2019-02-01T05:06:27Z")
If some drunken bear or panda bear were to mess with satellites by jamming or destroying them, how would that affect US military operations? What do satellites currently do for the US military and what alternative means would be used to still reach those objectives as best as possible under adverse conditions? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-military-lost-all-its-satellites/828770/2 "2019-02-01T07:28:33Z")
Off the top of my head, satellites are used for: - ISR - communications - guidance (GPS-guided weapons, navigation, etc) We’d lose a significant amount of effectiveness without them. Some weapons have alternative guidance mechanisms that probably aren’t quite as accurate. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-military-lost-all-its-satellites/828770/3 "2019-02-01T07:36:46Z")
Depends on which satellites, right? The EU maintains its own system of GPS satellites. Could the US use these for military purposes? I don’t know. There’s the additional question of whether Russia or China could knock out US/EU GPS while leaving their own intact. Could the US hack into these systems for its own military use? Would the disabling of GPS satellites allow enough advance warning to adjust in some way? I don’t know but I’m hoping someone does. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-military-lost-all-its-satellites/828770/4 "2019-02-01T07:57:44Z")
I think it’s a fairly safe bet that if China / Russia decided to start knocking our satellites out of the sky, we’d return the favor to them. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-military-lost-all-its-satellites/828770/5 "2019-02-01T08:16:59Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > Depends on which satellites, right? The EU maintains its own system of GPS satellites. Could the US use these for military purposes? I don’t know. Presume other satellites are in the same situation, they’re either destroyed or at least getting intermittently jammed. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-military-lost-all-its-satellites/828770/6 "2019-02-01T08:35:15Z")
For example, [Wikipedia says this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Direct_Attack_Munition#Operational_use) about JDAMs guidance with vs without GPS: > [@](#): > > Guidance is facilitated through a tail control system and a GPS-aided inertial navigation system (INS). The navigation system is initialized by transfer alignment from the aircraft that provides position and velocity vectors from the aircraft systems. Once released from the aircraft, the JDAM autonomously navigates to the designated target coordinates. Target coordinates can be loaded into the aircraft before takeoff, manually altered by the aircrew in flight prior to weapon release, or entered by a datalink from onboard targeting equipment, such as the LITENING II or “Sniper” targeting pods. In its most accurate mode, the JDAM system will provide a minimum weapon accuracy CEP of five meters or less when a GPS signal is available. If the GPS signal is jammed or lost, the JDAM can still achieve a 30-meter CEP or less for free flight times up to 100 seconds ---
**Author:** ![JB99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JB99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JB99)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-military-lost-all-its-satellites/828770/7 "2019-02-01T08:37:03Z")
For starters, we’d get to see if Kessler Syndrome is a plausible event. After that, all drones would become nonfunctional. Aircraft could still fly, but aircrews would need to start including navigators. These people would need to get very good at dead reckoning, and very fast. Ground forces would become lost more easily. They would have to be slower and more risk-averse. Printed maps and acetate would make a comeback in a big way. The Geo Engineers would be cranky from working around the clock to print materials. Troops would become more risk-averse and more keen on maintaining contact with their left and right. Blue Force trackers would be kaput. Fratricide would likely increase. Pretty much everything would become slower and less accurate, but only a handful of systems would be totally deadlined. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-military-lost-all-its-satellites/828770/8 "2019-02-01T14:08:34Z")
Forget drones and targeting. The two biggest losses would be navigation and communication. I’m not sure how long it would take us to figure out how to operate with the loss of email, IRC, VOIP, Sharepoint and cloud documents, computer based collaboration, and battle tracking. Without satellites, we lose all of our computer networks: NIPR, SIPR, JWICS, etc. And if you’ve ever watched soldiers try to navigate without GPS, you’d know how lost we’d be without it. Take away GPS and we’d never have any idea where anyone was; not even ourselves. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-military-lost-all-its-satellites/828770/9 "2019-02-01T14:32:29Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > And if you’ve ever watched soldiers try to navigate without GPS, you’d know how lost we’d be without it. Take away GPS and we’d never have any idea where anyone was; not even ourselves. There’s a old style way of navigating I saw in a museum once. I think they called it a “map” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-military-lost-all-its-satellites/828770/10 "2019-02-01T14:48:16Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Without satellites, we lose all of our computer networks: NIPR, SIPR, JWICS, etc. I know the vast majority of regular internet is carried through regular or undersea cables, not satellites. Is NIPR, SIPR, JWICS different? ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-military-lost-all-its-satellites/828770/11 "2019-02-01T14:58:49Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > There’s a old style way of navigating I saw in a museum once. I think they called it a “map” 🙂 Oh, we still have maps. Hell, some of us even still carry a compass. Possessing the tools is different than possessing the knowledge and skill to use them effectively. The sad truth is that the majority of the military cannot use a paper map to navigate without the aid of a GPS. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-military-lost-all-its-satellites/828770/12 "2019-02-01T15:00:52Z")
One nuclear state knocking out another nuclear state’s early warning infrastructure would be a good way for them to seriously heighten the chance of nuclear war. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-military-lost-all-its-satellites/828770/13 "2019-02-01T15:09:17Z")
> [@Hermitian](#): > > I know the vast majority of regular internet is carried through regular or undersea cables, not satellites. Is NIPR, SIPR, JWICS different? I can’t claim to be an expert on the infrastructure. But I do know that there aren’t any cables running to the major outposts (and certainly not the smaller ones) in combat areas like Iraq and Afghanistan. And those are places we’ve been for years. It’s possible that the network uses an undersea cable to go from the US to Europe or a communication facility somewhere before getting beamed to a satellite. But to communicate with those bases, there is definitely a satellite involved. How the data travels over the rest of the network, I don’t really know. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-military-lost-all-its-satellites/828770/14 "2019-02-01T15:26:46Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Oh, we still have maps. Hell, some of us even still carry a compass. Possessing the tools is different than possessing the knowledge and skill to use them effectively. The sad truth is that the majority of the military cannot use a paper map to navigate without the aid of a GPS. This saddens me. The first thing that will happen in a major conflict with a near-peer adversary will be satellites being knocked out of the sky. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-military-lost-all-its-satellites/828770/15 "2019-02-01T15:34:27Z")
The US Navy is teaching [celestial navigation.](https://www.npr.org/2016/02/22/467210492/u-s-navy-brings-back-navigation-by-the-stars-for-officers) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-military-lost-all-its-satellites/828770/16 "2019-02-01T15:34:34Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > This saddens me. The first thing that will happen in a major conflict with a near-peer adversary will be satellites being knocked out of the sky. In that case, you improvise. Google “USS Wahoo” and “Wewak.” 😛 ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-military-lost-all-its-satellites/828770/17 "2019-02-01T15:34:38Z")
> [@JB99](#): > > After that, all drones would become nonfunctional. Aircraft could still fly, but aircrews would need to start including navigators. These people would need to get very good at dead reckoning, and very fast. > [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Forget drones and targeting. The two biggest losses would be navigation and communication. With a loss of accuracy and coverage, couldn’t they use on LORAN\* or something similar? I’m not sure about the range and accuracy of the LORAN-C though. It would presumably be much easier to jam than satellite links based on directional antennae, correct? Could drone control and communication still be accomplished with communications towers, relay aircraft, land vehicles with retractable masts or just transmitters on the ground using frequencies low enough to bounce off the ionosphere or follow the contours of the earth? - [LORAN - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LORAN#Loran-B_and_C) ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-military-lost-all-its-satellites/828770/18 "2019-02-01T15:35:20Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > This saddens me. The first thing that will happen in a major conflict with a near-peer adversary will be satellites being knocked out of the sky. Once people realize our utter dependency on satellites, it starts to make sense why space dominance is so important and why the Space Force is not just a gimmick. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-military-lost-all-its-satellites/828770/19 "2019-02-01T15:41:27Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Once people realize our utter dependency on satellites, it starts to make sense why space dominance is so important and why the Space Force is not just a gimmick. It’s not that Space Force is a gimmick, it’s just there isn’t going to be any forces in space. The name is stupid, and only represents an expensive new organization for something that already happens now. ---
**Author:** ![JB99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JB99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JB99)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-military-lost-all-its-satellites/828770/20 "2019-02-01T15:51:27Z")
And yet somehow we managed to navigate our way through WW2 without a GPS… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-military-lost-all-its-satellites/828770.md?page=2)