# What if the US military lost all its satellites? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 1, 2019, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-military-lost-all-its-satellites/828770 "2019-02-01T05:06:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2019, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-military-lost-all-its-satellites/828770/41 "2019-02-02T21:17:32Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > … Even beyond the capabilities of the US? I take it it’s more difficult to shoot down a satellite than put one up? Can satellites defend in some way? … I suspect we (the USA) could wreck a shitload of satellites if we put our mind to it. Probably more difficult to shoot one down (trying to hit something moving VERY fast), but it’s really a different problem than putting one into orbit. Many satellites have some basic maneuvering capabilities, but beyond that, I don’t think anyone’s put anything into orbit with any defensive measures. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2019, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-military-lost-all-its-satellites/828770/42 "2019-02-02T22:27:22Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > If some drunken bear or panda bear were to mess with satellites by jamming or destroying them, how would that affect US military operations? What do satellites currently do for the US military and what alternative means would be used to still reach those objectives as best as possible under adverse conditions? If we can’t use satellites then we would use ground based transmitters. We already do that now with Commercial aircraft. It would be a software upload at most to add ground GPS to the mix. I believe my phone based aviation software can use cell towers as a reference. The problem is antenna location on aircraft. GPS antennas on planes would be be on top and it might require relocation. We could replicate the system on land. The reason we use satellites vs ground transmitters is worldwide coverage vs regional coverage. Commercially there is no coverage over the ocean for ground based transmitters. Militarily it doesn’t matter how far off your nuclear weapon is. If we’re attacked then the shit hits the fan and the accuracy of +/- 3 feet isn’t much of a problem. What you lose without satellites is the ability to drive a missile in through the front door like we saw in the Gulf war. And those were laser guided anyway so it means you have to be on location to pull it off. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-military-lost-all-its-satellites/828770/43 "2019-02-03T04:35:43Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > You mean those “orienteering” courses the Boy Scouts do for their little badges? No. Not at all. No, I mean, like being given a map and a compass (and your particular declination for where your map is) and having to find your way to a campsite 10-12 miles away through the northern New Mexico mountains kind of navigation. Triangulation by landmarks, etc… Assuming you have a decent map, it’s not terribly hard. I would assume that if Boy Scouts at Philmont (or most other high adventure bases) can hack it by the thousands every summer, then your average infantryman should be able to as well. ---
**Author:** ![joema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9adbd/32.png) [@joema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joema)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-military-lost-all-its-satellites/828770/44 "2019-02-03T14:20:39Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > … I take it it’s more difficult to shoot down a satellite than put one up? Can satellites defend in some way?.. No ASAT weapon thus far tested can reach beyond low earth orbit – a few hundred miles up. The 24 active US GPS satellites (plus six orbital spares) are in orbits 12,000 mi high. Only 3-4 are required above the horizon to determine a precise 3D fix: [![](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_satellite#/media/File:ConstellationGPS.gif) ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_satellite#/media/File:ConstellationGPS.gif) US military communication satellites (Milstar) and early warning satellites are in geosynchronous orbits 22,500 mi high, about 1/10th of the way to the moon. No solid-fueled rocket can reach that altitude, it takes a big liquid-fueled booster. Military GPS uses different frequencies and is more jam-resistant than civilian GPS. However the theoretical vulnerability to jamming is known and the GPS constellation is being upgraded with new “Block III” versions which are much more jam-resistant: [GPS Block III - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS_Block_IIIA) Besides the US GPS system, there is the newer European Galileo system which is already active. All 24 satellites and six orbital spares should be in place by next year. It is more accurate than the US GPS system (for civilian users) with about 1 meter capability. They are in 14,400 mile-high orbits: [Is Galileo inside your phone?](https://www.gsa.europa.eu/newsroom/news/galileo-inside-your-phone) There are also the Russian GLONASS and Chinese BeiDou systems: > **[GLONASS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLONASS)** > > GLONASS (ГЛОНАСС, .mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}IPA: \[ɡɫɐˈnas\]; Russian: Глобальная навигационная спутниковая система, tr. Global'naya Navigatsionnaya Sputnikovaya Sistema, lit. 'Global Navigation Satellite System') is a Russian satellite navigation system operating as part of a radionavigation-satellite service. It provides an ... > **[BeiDou](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BeiDou_Navigation_Satellite_System)** > > The BeiDou Navigation Satellite System (BDS; Chinese: 北斗卫星导航系统; pinyin: běidǒu wèixīng dǎoháng xìtǒng) is a satellite-based radio navigation system owned and operated by the China National Space Administration. It is one of the global navigation satellite systems (GNSS) that provide geolocation and time information to a BDS receiver anywhere on or near the Earth where there is an unobstructed line of sight to four or more BDS satellites. It does not require the user to transmit any data, an Th... It’s possible to make a multi-constellation receiver which picks up some combination of the above satellites. It seems likely that future critical navigation applications will use both GPS Block III and Galileo, so both systems would have to be disrupted to cause a general outage. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-military-lost-all-its-satellites/828770/45 "2019-02-03T14:30:54Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Assuming you have a decent map, it’s not terribly hard. I would assume that if Boy Scouts at Philmont (or most other high adventure bases) can hack it by the thousands every summer, then your average infantryman should be able to as well. The scouts do this alone? Or in groups with a scout master? ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-military-lost-all-its-satellites/828770/46 "2019-02-03T14:43:51Z")
6 million hits in Google for “lost boy scout” vs 180 million for “lost LT”. That’s science. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2019, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-military-lost-all-its-satellites/828770/47 "2019-02-04T03:36:24Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > The scouts do this alone? Or in groups with a scout master? Depends. Back in the day, we just had a Scoutmaster hanging around in case we got seriously lost, although he didn’t know what he was doing much better than we did, truth be told. What we did on our Philmont trip was rotate whose job navigation was that particular day, so we all got to do it at least once during our trek. We all had maps and compasses, so we could sort of play at home, although the “official” map was in the map-case (a folder-thing with a clear plastic side that you could draw on with grease pencils), and that’s what we used to triangulate where we were, if we didn’t already know. I mean, your average campout isn’t full-on backpacking, but there are lots of scouts (most?) that do that kind of thing at some point, and in general, the BSA is pretty big on having scouts learn stuff for themselves instead of having adults do it for them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-military-lost-all-its-satellites/828770.md?page=2)