# What if the US suddenly picked butter over guns? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 15, 2008, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-suddenly-picked-butter-over-guns/445400 "2008-04-15T04:15:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-suddenly-picked-butter-over-guns/445400/41 "2008-04-16T15:23:54Z")
Of course the Iraq war funding is hidden in other bills and special funding to disguise it from the budget. A mere trillion dollars . ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-suddenly-picked-butter-over-guns/445400/42 "2008-04-16T15:23:54Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Taxation isn’t theft. [/QUOTE] Nyah, nyah, nyah. Is too. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-suddenly-picked-butter-over-guns/445400/43 "2008-04-16T16:23:43Z")
My prediction if the US spent the defense budget on butter: Wisconsin dairy farmers would become a bunch of \*nouveau riche \* assholes, wearing Prada overalls and insiting on getting their cheese curds at the new Spago in Eau Claire. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-suddenly-picked-butter-over-guns/445400/44 "2008-04-16T17:13:32Z")
[QUOTE=Musicat] Nyah, nyah, nyah. Is too. [/QUOTE] No, it’s not. It’s paying what you owe. Unless you were raised by wolves and live alone in the wilderness, you benefit from government. The “taxes are theft” argument is nothing but an attempt to **justify** theft, to take all the benefits of an organized, stable society and never give back. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-suddenly-picked-butter-over-guns/445400/45 "2008-04-16T17:14:52Z")
[QUOTE=flurb] My prediction if the US spent the defense budget on butter: Wisconsin dairy farmers would become a bunch of \*nouveau riche \* assholes, wearing Prada overalls and insiting on getting their cheese curds at the new Spago in Eau Claire. [/QUOTE] I also think there would be a huge increase in heart disease. Nutritionists would probably suggest spending it on olive oil instead. ---
**Author:** ![Ocean\_Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8797f3/32.png) [@Ocean\_Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ocean_Annie)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2008, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-suddenly-picked-butter-over-guns/445400/46 "2008-04-17T03:35:48Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] military spending us It is too damn much. It you build it ,you want to use it. [/QUOTE] The U.S also sells munitions. It’s a business. If the U.S. finally chose butter over guns, it might be able to catch up with the rising global economic powers: China and the EU. The choice needs to be made soon. Using military power alone to wield international influence is a precursor to economic disaster; history is clear on this fact. The former Soviet Union is a good example. How long can the U.S. sustain a trillion dollar defense budget with borrowed money? While tax dollars fund this war, the U.S. is producing a generation of low skilled and undereducated citizens who are unable to compete in a global economy or effectively participate in a democracy. We have arguably the best higher education in the world that is coupled with a disastrous K-12 education. Students come out of high school ill prepared for admittance to a top tier university. Then there is the U.S. healthcare system that delivers less care and costs substantially more compared to other developed countries. With millions of Americans locked out of healthcare and millions more underinsured, it is grossly irresponsible to overextend our limited resources on nation building at the expense of our economic health and social needs. It is insane. > [@](#): > > Again and again it has always been the world’s leading lending country that has been the premier country in terms of political influence, diplomatic influence, and cultural influence. It’s no accident that we took over the role from the British at the same time that we took over… the job of being the world’s leading lending country. Today we are no longer the world’s leading lending country. In fact we are now the world’s biggest debtor country, and we are continuing to wield influence on the basis of military prowess alone. **Benjamin Friedman** Chalmers Johnson offers good insight. [Video](http://www.tomdispatch.com/p/chalmers_video) [Link](http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/174884) ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2008, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-suddenly-picked-butter-over-guns/445400/47 "2008-04-17T03:51:54Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] The right wing isn’t rational. What I’d hope to see is a general resurgence of the country. There’d be more money flowing into the more productive parts of the economy. We could afford to fix our crumbling infrastructure. We could afford to build non-oil sources of energy. Certainly it would be better than our huge, expensive military, which does us about as much good as piling up hundreds of millions of dollars in piles and burning them. [/QUOTE] I’m not certain where you got “right wing” out of my post. I simply meant that reducing the federal government to being “enfeebled to do nothing” is asinine as a concept, and utterly lacking in reality because it isn’t ever going to happen. I do agree with you, shockingly, that we need to divert funding from _somewhere_ to incentivize new forms of energy, and that we need a resurgence in our economy. But the current war in Iraq is only one piece of the puzzle, there are many other factors at play as to why America is bordering on recession. And have you visited other countries, ever? I would hardly call our infrastructure “crumbling”, more like “in need of constant repair and renewal”, as any infrastructure is in need of. And the USA’s military isn’t going anywhere anytime soon, so you might as well get used to that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-the-us-suddenly-picked-butter-over-guns/445400.md?page=2)