# What If Trump Doesn't Leave? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 15, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-doesnt-leave/816172 "2018-06-15T20:11:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-doesnt-leave/816172/61 "2018-06-16T17:41:11Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Add-on question (hope the OP doesn’t mind): Since the elections are held by the states, what if enough red/Republican states get in on the game to agree to suspend their elections so that the Democratic 2020 candidate can’t get to the 270 electoral votes required even if winning every single state that does still hold election? The Democratic candidate could get 268 electoral votes to Trump’s 0 and still not win the Electoral College. No, because the 12th Amendment says a candidate needs to get “a majority of the whole number of electors appointed”. > **[Twelfth Amendment to the United States Constitution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelfth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution)** > > The Twelfth Amendment (Amendment XII) to the United States Constitution provides the procedure for electing the president and vice president. It replaced the procedure in Article II, Section 1, Clause 3, under which the Electoral College originally functioned. The amendment was proposed by Congress on December 9, 1803, and was ratified by the requisite three-fourths of state legislatures on June 15, 1804. The new rules took effect for the 1804 presidential election and have governed all subse... If a state chooses not to appoint any electors, that reduces the number of electoral votes in total, and thus reduces what the candidate needs to win for a majority. For example, in the 1860 election, all of the states appointed electors, so the total electoral colleges was 303. Majority was 152; Lincoln won 180 electoral votes. > **[1860 United States presidential election](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1860)** > > James Buchanan > Democratic > Abraham Lincoln > Republican > The 1860 United States presidential election was the 19th quadrennial presidential election, held on Tuesday, November 6, 1860. In a four-way contest, the Republican Party ticket of Abraham Lincoln and Hannibal Hamlin won a national popular plurality, a popular majority in the North where states had already abolished slavery, and a national electoral majority comprising only Northern electoral votes. Lincoln's election thus served as the m... But in the 1864 election, the States in rebellion did not appoint any electors. That meant the College was 233 votes, a majority was 117. Lincoln won 212. > **[1864 United States presidential election](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1864)** > > Abraham Lincoln > Republican > Abraham Lincoln > National Union > The 1864 United States presidential election was the 20th quadrennial presidential election. It was held on Tuesday, November 8, 1864. Near the end of the American Civil War, incumbent President Abraham Lincoln of the National Union Party easily defeated the Democratic nominee, former General George B. McClellan, by a wide margin of 212–21 in the electoral college, with 55% of the popular vote. For the election, the Republican Party ... So short answer: a state can’t sabotage the election by not playing. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-doesnt-leave/816172/62 "2018-06-16T18:00:13Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I’m basically in agreement that elections can’t be suspended, although I believe that in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 there was discussion of contingencies in the event of some sort of extraordinary crisis. But considering how we’ve held elections during a Civil War and 2 major world war commitments, I don’t think there’s anything that would be able to top these in terms of meeting the crisis definition. > > However, what the right wing in this country could do is seriously undermine the confidence that people have in those election results. If that happens, then it could lead to major unrest and political chaos. I put those polls about suspending the election about on par with the polls about people leaving the country if X Politician wins the presidency. Sounds good when you’re thinking about it, but not so much when you actually have to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-doesnt-leave/816172/63 "2018-06-16T19:23:24Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > Anyway, I heard something interesting on _Real Time_ with Bill Maher (I get some of my best information that way;)). 52% of Republicans say they would support postponing the next presidential election, due to voter fraud. IIRC we did this with Bush proposing various pretexts. The threads were idiotic then and I see no reason to change my opinion. (And on preview I see that **Northern Piper** beat me to it.) ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-doesnt-leave/816172/64 "2018-06-16T19:27:23Z")
Sorry if this has been covered already, but what if Trump declares Martial Law? Is there any check against this? Can he just claim any threat, no matter how ridiculous in support of his declaration? Is the only counter to this impeachment? ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-doesnt-leave/816172/65 "2018-06-16T20:06:58Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No they didn’t. Come on - a cherry picked poll of a non-representative sample, and you fall for it. > > The SDMB - the most gullible skeptics on the Internet. > > Regards, > Shodan From the study: The survey interviewed a sample of 1,325 Americans from June 5 through 20. Respondents were recruited from the Qualtrics online panel who had previously reported identifying with or leaning toward one of the two major parties. We focus on the 650 respondents who identify with or lean toward the Republican Party. The sample has been weighted to match the population in terms of sex, age, race and education. Is the reading part the difficulty, or the comprehension? > [@beowulff](#): > > Sorry if this has been covered already, but what if Trump declares Martial Law? > Is there any check against this? > Can he just claim any threat, no matter how ridiculous in support of his declaration? > Is the only counter to this impeachment? Martial law requires the military go along with it. As they take an oath to defend the Constitution, above all others, I’d wager you’d have a very hard time getting them on board. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-doesnt-leave/816172/66 "2018-06-16T20:35:52Z")
It’s a crazy question because Trump WILL leave. I read where he might consider stepping aside after just his first term. Didnt the democrats float this idea of getting Obama on for a third term and the same from Clinton? Of course all the left was cheering on the idea. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-doesnt-leave/816172/67 "2018-06-16T20:43:51Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > It’s a crazy question because Trump WILL leave. I read where he might consider stepping aside after just his first term. > > Didnt the democrats float this idea of getting Obama on for a third term and the same from Clinton? Of course all the left was cheering on the idea. Cites, please, for democrats wanting a third term for Obama? And that “the left” was cheering on the idea? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-doesnt-leave/816172/68 "2018-06-16T20:50:28Z")
A more believable scenario is the president and his allies (including Russian operative) corrupting electors to change the result of a close election. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-doesnt-leave/816172/69 "2018-06-16T20:52:57Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t think Trump would do this. But if he tried, this is a weak counter-argument. If a President is willing to throw out the Constitution and declare himself President-for-Life, do you really think he’s going to care about his action also being a violation of state laws? A stronger counter argument is Trump has a pattern of using executive power to it’s extent and even beyond it’s limits. Declaring martial law, halting the election in blue states till the illegals are rounded up, separate them from their children and deport them would not be out of step for Trump while blaming the democrats for it. I do wonder if we could have the next world’s ‘Hitler’. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-doesnt-leave/816172/70 "2018-06-16T20:59:04Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I would immediately stop working and begin protesting, as loudly and forcefully as possible, that this was unacceptable. I would urge my fellow citizens to bring this country to a standstill until the situation was properly resolved. I would not stop until the situation was properly resolved. I would escalate tactics in necessary. > > ETA: If a situation like the OP describes comes to pass, I will consider that a revolution/uprising is taking place and I will act accordingly to wrest control of this country back from those who are acting unlawfully. I’ve always maintained that my understanding of the social contract that I have with my country is that I will never take up arms against it as long as there are free and fair elections. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Cites, please, for democrats wanting a third term for Obama? And that “the left” was cheering on the idea? [https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/0d4fff90-0247-480a-bc1b-4cb0505b0666](https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/0d4fff90-0247-480a-bc1b-4cb0505b0666) ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-doesnt-leave/816172/71 "2018-06-16T21:16:59Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > A stronger counter argument is Trump has a pattern of using executive power to it’s extent and even beyond it’s limits. Declaring martial law, halting the election in blue states till the illegals are rounded up, separate them from their children and deport them would not be out of step for Trump while blaming the democrats for it. > > I do wonder if we could have the next world’s ‘Hitler’. For the moment, I think such a power grab would be met with fierce resistance. I don’t believe he has that kind of power just yet; however, what is troubling and what is currently happening is the move to load his government with loyalists. Loads of career officers in the State Department are leaving, and so are many other civil servants who are being pushed out after decades on the job. Right now, he has resistance, but over time, he will have less. He will have a government of top people who are either afraid of him, or who in many cases are cheerleaders for his authoritarian management style and actively enforce it. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-doesnt-leave/816172/72 "2018-06-16T21:49:32Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > There’s no credible expectation that Trump would last into a second term via non-criminal means, so if we’re going to speculate that he _will_ attempt criminal means, we have to get in on it early! The chances that he won’t survive this term, let alone a second one, are probably also greater than either he or his “doctors” are willing to admit. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-doesnt-leave/816172/73 "2018-06-16T22:06:11Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Cites, please, for democrats wanting a third term for Obama? And that “the left” was cheering on the idea? When I Google “obama wanted a third term” I get 21.7 million hits. Q.E.D. The problem isn’t finding the cites — the Internet is full of them — but refining the query. “obama wanted a third term Hillary is a witch” gets 953,000 hits. “obama wanted a third term Hillary is a witch child sex ring” gets 712,000 hits. Hope this helps? ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-doesnt-leave/816172/74 "2018-06-16T22:11:29Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Refresh my memory, please. Which communist dictatorship did America prop up? Not many, and “prop up” is ridiculous exaggeration, but the US was diplomatically allied with Somalia starting in the mid-1970s and with the Khmer Rouge after they were driven out of power by the Vietnamese. Both were communist, but pro-Chinese and anti-Soviet: we supported them strategically b/c they were anti-Soviet. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-doesnt-leave/816172/75 "2018-06-16T22:26:34Z")
I’m obviously not a lawyer but I pretend to be in real life. I think Trump likes the idea of never leaving office. But he also likes the idea of sending journalists to prison camps and using the IRS to sue his enemies into oblivion. Trump wants to be a dictator because his fragile ego craves power and adulation and cannot handle criticism. He would do anything to feed his ego, and has no respect for the law or morality. Saddam Hussein used to have his political enemies tortured and the torture videotaped so he could watch it at home in his palace. I doubt Trump is that bad, but he doesn’t respect democracy in the slightest. Luckily we have checks and balances, and if Trump refuses to leave I’m guessing the secret service or some other group will frog march him out the back door. Also keep in mind that the healthier, wealthier and more educated a population is the less they tolerate dictatorship. When a nation hits 5-10k in per capita income, they tend to become pretty intolerant of dictatorships. Plus Trump lost the popular vote to a candidate who was unpopular and running for the 3rd democratic term. So the public wouldn’t just accept it, no matter what the alt-right says. There would be mass lawsuits, mass protests, mass strikes and armed insurrection if Trump tried this. Plus the international community would crack down with sanctions and pressure until Trump stepped down, the same way the US has done that with other dictators. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-doesnt-leave/816172/76 "2018-06-16T22:35:44Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > When I Google “obama wanted a third term” I get 21.7 million hits. Q.E.D. > > The problem isn’t finding the cites — the Internet is full of them — but refining the query. > “obama wanted a third term Hillary is a witch” gets 953,000 hits. > “obama wanted a third term Hillary is a witch child sex ring” gets 712,000 hits. > Hope this helps? Democrats know the 22nd amendment prohibits this. Had we not had that amendment, then Obama wouldn’t be bad but honestly he wasn’t a great president. He wasn’t a fighter and he tried too hard to be liked. But when people say Hillary was Obama’s third term they mean she would continue his policies, the same way Gore would’ve continued Clintons policies. To truly get a third term the 22nd amendment needs to be overturned. I don’t see that happening. Trump’s election made me realize how important checks and balances are. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-doesnt-leave/816172/77 "2018-06-16T23:05:59Z")
Trump’s buddy Rudy G tried to stay in office an extra 3 months due to 9/11. There was supposed to be primary for mayor on 9/11/01 but it was canceled and moved to 9/25. The state did not allow him to stay the extra 3 months. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-doesnt-leave/816172/78 "2018-06-17T02:08:52Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Trump’s buddy Rudy G tried to stay in office an extra 3 months due to 9/11. There was supposed to be primary for mayor on 9/11/01 but it was canceled and moved to 9/25. The state did not allow him to stay the extra 3 months. And, in that analogy, who plays the role of the “state” with trump? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-doesnt-leave/816172/79 "2018-06-17T04:17:36Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Trump’s buddy Rudy G tried to stay in office an extra 3 months due to 9/11. There was supposed to be primary for mayor on 9/11/01 but it was canceled and moved to 9/25. The state did not allow him to stay the extra 3 months. Seriously…what - the - fuck happened to Rudy G??? I remember a time when I thought this guy might not actually be a bad president or cabinet member. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-doesnt-leave/816172/80 "2018-06-17T05:09:58Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Didnt the democrats float this idea of getting Obama on for a third term and the same from Clinton? Of course all the left was cheering on the idea. What planet were you living on at the time? Because none of that happened here on Earth. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-doesnt-leave/816172.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-doesnt-leave/816172.md?page=5)