# What if Trump goes TOO quietly? (A hypothetical) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 19, 2020, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365 "2020-10-19T23:12:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2020, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/1 "2020-10-19T23:12:09Z")
A hypothetical that went through my mind today. Let’s say Trump loses bigly, as he might say. He loses Georgia, Ohio, and Texas, He loses PA by ten points. It’s so big that even he realizes he can’t BS his way to a win. He still tries for a few days. But once it becomes clear that Biden is getting the win, he heads down to Mar-A-Lago for the weekend…and doesn’t come back. He doesn’t resign, he doesn’t fire anyone, he doesn’t transfer power. He just quits. He still golfs and maybe talks some shit on Twitter, but he just refuses to take part in any Presidential duties. He won’t talk to his staff, won’t sign anything, won’t command the military. “Tell them to call Biden,” he says, not caring that he won’t take office for two months. What would happen? They can’t drag him to the Oval or the Situation Room. Would they impeach him and actually remove him this time? Could the Cabinet invoke the 25th if he’s not incapacitated but just being a massive prick? ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2020, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/2 "2020-10-19T23:18:12Z")
I’m pretty sure willful neglection of duties would get him sectioned 25. His cabinet would probably be okay with this at that point (they still have careers to worry about). And I’m sure his security detail would love to drag Trump to the WH if such is needed to invoke the 25th. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2020, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/3 "2020-10-19T23:33:36Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > Could the Cabinet invoke the 25th if he’s not incapacitated but just being a massive prick? He has been a massive prick for most of his life, and Pence has had ample opportunities to invoke the 25th in the last few years and hasn’t done so. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2020, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/4 "2020-10-19T23:36:08Z")
It would be an improvement. Really, what would the difference be? Trump would just not be around to screw everything up. Th The remaining staff could focus on a transition, and start talking to Biden’s staff about January 20. If Jared or Ivanka tried to give any orders, they could be simply ignored, or told to STFU and get out of the way. Sounds like an ideal situation for everyone, really. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2020, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/5 "2020-10-19T23:38:33Z")
I suppose if Trump really wanted to give America a “fuck you” gesture on his way out, he’d dismiss his entire cabinet and indeed every political appointment he could, _then_ flounce, basically decapitating the executive branch on his way out. If there is no cabinet at all, can Pence invoke the 25th all by himself? ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2020, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/6 "2020-10-19T23:46:39Z")
That’s why Pelosi created that committee. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2020, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/7 "2020-10-19T23:50:12Z")
Did Pelosi actually follow through on that? I thought it was just an amusing stunt to irritate Trump, but if there’s an actual committee in place, I’m in favour of it in principle, but I can see how it could be abused in future, if a Republican congress uses it to harass a Democrat president, constantly ordering him to jump through various hoops to demonstrate “fitness”, repeatedly issuing subpoenas for the president’s staff, basically trying to run Benghazi-type hearings over and over in hopes something will stick either legally or in the minds of voters. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2020, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/8 "2020-10-19T23:56:45Z")
Trump doing anything quietly is not a hypothetical; it is a delusional, sadly. ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2020, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/9 "2020-10-20T00:40:23Z")
If Trump loses and remains true to form, he will scream louder than Howard Dean. His live, on-air rant will be parodied the way Downfall’s famous scene was. I think we’ll see him get in his golden airplane and fly somewhere for vacation, maybe to one of his golf courses in Scotland (if he doesn’t flee to Russia!). I don’t know what medical intervention may be required if someone has a truly epic non-stop rant. As for the hypothetical, there would be a weak attempt to get him to meet Biden for the traditional “Old Prez Meets New Prez”. I’m sure Trump didn’t like meeting Obama for that meeting, but at least that time he could wave his victory in Obama’s face. Not this time. Maybe Trump won’t show, or will make Biden wait as a last minute power play. Trump doesn’t actually need to be at the White House to do much, beyond sign bills. He can launch nuclear weapons from away (frightening thought!) so he isn’t needed even for that. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2020, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/10 "2020-10-20T01:02:36Z")
I posted elsewhere. > [@If push comes to shove, will Trump hand over the reins to Pence?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-push-comes-to-shove-will-trump-hand-over-the-reins-to-pence/922083/46): > > Excellent article in The Atlantic. > > ### [He Won’t Concede, but He’ll Pack His Bags](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/10/lazy-cowards-dont-start-civil-wars/616720/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:%2BTheAtlantic%2B%28The%2BAtlantic%2B-%2BMaster%2BFeed%29) > > All evidence suggests that the president would run from the responsibility of overseeing the violent fracture of America. > > Here is the punch line [my bold] of this very long article. This makes sense as it is in keeping with trump’s \< _cough, cough_ \> character as a deeply lazy person who simply ignores and walks away from stuff he doesn’t like. > > > Now, as is true for many [politicians](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/oct/11/jonhenley) before him, staying in office is the surest way to evade investigation, prosecution, and conviction. That fact informs my colleague Barton Gellman’s [cover story](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/11/what-if-trump-refuses-concede/616424/) in the latest _Atlantic_ , which asks what will happen if Trump loses the election, then refuses—as he promises he will—to concede. I agree with Gellman’s premise that Trump will not under any circumstances concede, if conceding means acknowledging that he was beaten in a fair fight. But I see some leeway where Gellman does not, because just as there was an indolent way into the presidency, there is an indolent way out. **What if Trump does not concede—and he continues not to concede, even as he packs his suitcases, swipes some White House–branded complimentary toiletries, and walks onto the South Lawn and into Marine One and waves farewell to the presidency?** > > > > I think this scenario is in fact the most likely one, if Trump loses the election. And it may even be his _preferred_ scenario, better than an outright victory (which would require another four years of onerous employment), better than showing up on Inauguration Day and having to duel Joe Biden for the right to be sworn in. As for the prospect of civil war: Trump is a coward, and all evidence suggests that he would run from the responsibility, even more burdensome than normal service as president, of overseeing the violent fracture of America. A civil war sounds like a lot of work. The easiest path is also the most lucrative. Get on Marine One, protesting all the way, and spend the rest of your days fleecing the 40 percent of Americans who still think you are the Messiah, and who will watch you on cable news, spend their money on whatever hypoallergenic pillow you endorse, and come to see you whenever you visit their town. > > > > The law would still be a problem: Leave the presidency, and immediately federal prosecutors will be falling over one another to nail to their wall the great orange pelt of an ex-president. One way out would be to self-pardon before leaving office, a constitutionally dubious maneuver that just might work. Another would be to resign in favor of Mike Pence, who, during a very brief caretaker presidency, would offer a Gerald Ford–like absolution, for the good of the nation. > > Just walk away and defy anyone to come after you. Isn’t this what he has always done? Lawsuits, subpoenas, accusations of law-breaking, requests for tax and other documents. He relies on the fact that **no one will try to stop him** from doing-- or NOT doing-- exactly what he wants. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2020, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/11 "2020-10-20T01:20:13Z")
A functioning POTUS would be needed to sign, at least, [another continuing resolution to fund the government by December 11](https://federalnewsnetwork.com/government-shutdown/2020/09/senate-sends-shutdown-averting-continuing-resolution-to-trumps-desk/). > President Donald Trump signed a temporary, stop-gap funding measure into law in the early hours of Thursday morning, which avoids a government shutdown and keeps agencies running through Dec. 11. I suppose they could Article 25 him and get Pence to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2020, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/12 "2020-10-20T02:24:14Z")
Congress can actually do a lot without a President. Article I, Section 7, Clauses 2 and 3 of the Constitution state that if Congress passes a law, the President has ten days to sign or veto it. If he does neither, the bill automatically becomes law. Appropriations, declarations of war, ratification of Supreme Court justices, etc., don’t need the President to do anything. Congress can’t order a nuclear strike, of course, but I suppose if Dear Leader Kim decided to nuke Guam or Hawaii, the Defense Department would simply declare the President to be “out of contact” and go with Contingency Plan A. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2020, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/13 "2020-10-20T02:30:44Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Congress can actually do a lot without a President. Or, conversely, the present Congress can actually do practically nothing, with or without a President. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2020, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/14 "2020-10-20T02:51:14Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Congress can actually do a lot without a President. Article I, Section 7, Clauses 2 and 3 of the Constitution state that if Congress passes a law, the President has ten days to sign or veto it. If he does neither, the bill automatically becomes law. You’re right, of course – it was only crucial that Trump sign the last funding resolution because they’d left it to the last minute and waiting even 10 days would have been a problem. I suspect the back of my head was thinking ‘pocket veto’ but that only happens if Congress goes out of session. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2020, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/15 "2020-10-20T03:14:16Z")
Yeah, other than the need to sign the next continuing resolution, the rest of the government can just carry on in “marking time” mode doing whatever the ageny heads are empowered to do by themselves w/o having to clear it with POTUS. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Did Pelosi actually follow through on that? No, it would not be operational now anyway, it has to be actually enacted to be empowered under 25A, meaning Senate would have to pass and POTUS sign it, and as she proposed it it would come into effect in the _next_ term. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2020, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/16 "2020-10-20T03:35:20Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I can see how it could be abused in future, if a Republican congress uses it to harass a Democrat president, constantly ordering him to jump through various hoops to demonstrate “fitness The commission still would need the Veep to sign off on it: > [@](#): > > Whenever the Vice President and a majority of **either** the principal officers of the executive departments **or** of such other body as Congress may by law provide, … It’s the Veep and either a majority of Cabinet or of “such other body”. So the Congress by itself can’t invoke the provision, via “such other body” as it creates. Still needs the Veep, and presumably a Democratic Veep won’t take action against a Democratic Prez, and same for Republican Veep and Prez. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2020, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/17 "2020-10-20T12:51:15Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > > > I can see how it could be abused in future, if a Republican congress uses it to harass a Democrat president, constantly ordering him to jump through various hoops to demonstrate “fitness > > The commission still would need the Veep to sign off on it: Yes, but the result may be less important than the harassment. A hostile congress could replace the president and just get the vice-president… big deal. But if they can constantly smear the president under the guise of “we’re just making sure of his fitness, that’s important for the country, don’t-cha-know, don’t you want to make sure the president is fit for office, why do you hate America?”, that might help them more. It could end up like the “Glorious Loyalty Oath Crusade” from _Catch-22_ - it’s not about loyalty at all, but about power. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2020, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/18 "2020-10-20T13:47:55Z")
Nothing stopping them from doing that now. And the proposed commission can’t remove the Prez without the Veep, so I don’t really see much difference. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2020, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/19 "2020-10-20T14:02:42Z")
But the point wouldn’t be to _remove_ the prez, just to _embarrass_ the prez. As I understood the Benghazi-investigation circus, it was never the point to actually find some definable wrongdoing that could be used to impeach then Secretary-of-State Clinton, because even if it got that far, the Democrats in the Senate wouldn’t go for it anyway. Impeachment is actually a _losing_ endgame, because once you play that card, the process has to end with a Clinton acquittal. Rather, by dragging the process out as long as possible, it cements in the minds of at least some of the American public that there must be _something_ there, smoke and fire and whatnot, all to try to sabotage Clinton’s election prospects when she made her predicted presidential run. In a hypothetical case for a first-term president of a party different than the congressional majority, just perpetually “investigate” his fitness, not in hopes of having the Veep replace him, but to reduce the chance of the Prez (_and_ Veep) winning re-election. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2020, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/20 "2020-10-20T14:18:08Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > It would be an improvement. Really, what would the difference be? Trump would just not be around to screw everything up. Th The remaining staff could focus on a transition, and start talking to Biden’s staff about January 20. If Jared or Ivanka tried to give any orders, they could be simply ignored, or told to STFU and get out of the way. > > Sounds like an ideal situation for everyone, really. Yeah, this. After about a week of waiting (to see if he’s really staying quiet), we all breathe a sigh of relief, and let the career bureaucrats run the day-to-day operations of the government for a couple of months. Maybe take the opportunity to fumigate the White House while he’s gone. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365.md?page=2)