# What if Trump goes TOO quietly? (A hypothetical) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 19, 2020, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365 "2020-10-19T23:12:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2020, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/21 "2020-10-20T15:16:01Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > …Congress can’t order a nuclear strike, of course, but I suppose if Dear Leader Kim decided to nuke Guam or Hawaii, the Defense Department would simply declare the President to be “out of contact” and go with Contingency Plan A. This is really my only concern if Trump totally lets things slide. There has to be _someone_ serving as CINC if any of our enemies get ornery. Better to go with the 25th Amendment than to let there be any uncertainty about that. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2020, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/22 "2020-10-20T16:20:28Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > It would be an improvement. Really, what would the difference be? Trump would just not be around to screw everything up. Th The remaining staff could focus on a transition, and start talking to Biden’s staff about January 20. If Jared or Ivanka tried to give any orders, they could be simply ignored, or told to STFU and get out of the way. > > Sounds like an ideal situation for everyone, really. I also agree. Who cares whether he watches Fox in Washington or Florida. At least he wouldn’t be signing any new executive orders. Win all around ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2020, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/23 "2020-10-20T16:50:32Z")
As others have pointed out, there’s not a lot of things a President really has to do. If Congress enacts a law and the President refuses to sign it, it takes effect automatically. While the President is in charge of the executive branch, the actual work is done by the employees of various agencies and they would still be working even if the President does nothing. If a situation arose where somebody needed Trump to do some aspect of the office and he refused, there would be the legal option of seeking a writ of mandamus, which is a court order to a government official telling them to do some official act. If Trump refused to comply, that would be the grounds for removing him from office and having Pence take over. But I can’t imagine a scenario in which that would be necessary. More likely is Trump will spend his final weeks in office selling his signature on pardons and executive orders. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2020, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/24 "2020-10-20T16:58:53Z")
What, no pardons? No, he will keep on trolling to the end. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2020, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/25 "2020-10-20T17:01:49Z")
I don’t know how many times during a given week Trump (while awake) goes an hour without speaking or ranting. But I’m pretty sure I know how many digits that number has. So quiet would be good. Perhaps he could carry a big stick, or even a fasces. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/26 "2020-10-21T02:44:00Z")
> There has to be _someone_ serving as CINC if any of our enemies get ornery. Paging Alexander Haig… ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/27 "2020-10-21T03:59:33Z")
Haig had extensive political and military experience _and_ died ten years ago, so naturally he would be a big improvement over the incumbent. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/28 "2020-10-21T04:38:31Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > There has to be _someone_ serving as CINC if any of our enemies get ornery. By law, National Command Authority rests with both the President **and** the Secretary of Defense. Only the release of nuclear weapons requires presidential involvement. Secretary Esper can lawfully order conventional military actions any time he deems them necessary. There is no legal requirement that he brief Trump in advance let alone ask for presidential approval of military action. Then there are the Unified Combatant Commanders. Military commanders have full legal authority to take action in “self” defense of their units. That can include preemptive offensives if they really want to push the limits of their legal authority and SECDEF is not directly forbidding it. Trump being out of the loop only takes nukes off the table. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/29 "2020-10-21T11:12:39Z")
> [@Kimera757](#): > > I don’t know what medical intervention may be required if someone has a truly epic non-stop rant. If your rant lasts more than four hours, seek medical attention immediately! ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/30 "2020-10-21T12:25:15Z")
> [@Kimera757](#): > > I don’t know what medical intervention may be required if someone has a truly epic non-stop rant. A good set of earplugs for those unfortunate enough to have to sit through the rant? 😜 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/31 "2020-10-21T15:25:38Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If a situation arose where somebody needed Trump to do some aspect of the office and he refused, there would be the legal option of seeking a writ of mandamus, which is a court order to a government official telling them to do some official act. But mandamus applies only where an official has little or no discretion; the law says he/she **must** do X, he/she just isn’t doing it, so a court isn’t infringing on executive-branch discretion when it makes the official perform his/her clear duty. I can’t think of many duties of the President where he doesn’t have significant discretion. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/32 "2020-10-21T15:56:08Z")
Like I said, I can’t imagine a scenario where it would happen. But it is a legal means to get a government official to carry out some act so I brought it up to show there is a redress to a government official deciding to simply stop doing their job. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/33 "2020-10-21T18:00:28Z")
he will probably set a record for late term pardons. Any friend of his will almost certainly get a pardon unless they turned on him like Michael Cohen. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/34 "2020-10-21T18:24:05Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > he will probably set a record for late term pardons. Any friend of his will almost certainly get a pardon unless they turned on him like Michael Cohen So get the pardon first, _then_ turn on him? ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/35 "2020-10-21T19:10:58Z")
we might find out if he can pardon himself. Or he just makes a deal with Pence and quits so Pence can pardon him before Biden takes over. He’s already said he is not showing up for the inauguration if he loses. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/36 "2020-10-21T19:42:25Z")
I strongly suspect he’ll pardon himself and his immediate family members (or agree to quit with Pence ‘required’ to do the same as @Bijou_Drains suggests) , _maybe_ a few close friends like Hicks and the like. The rest? No pardons for them, since they will have all ‘failed’ him if he isn’t re-elected. Yes, that might be self-destructive, if those who likely know more than they should, like Ghouliani, decide to testify against him, but Trump isn’t exactly known for making wise decisions when it comes to his spite. Based on his legal track record, he’s going to be dead looooong before all the probable lawsuits against him are finished, and his supporters and friends will make sure he gets a comfortable lifestyle whether or not his money and businesses are under any sort of lien. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/37 "2020-10-21T19:54:55Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Or he just makes a deal with Pence and quits so Pence can pardon him before Biden takes over. Not that I expect this to happen, but it would be darkly amusing if they made that deal, Trump resigned, and then Pence didn’t pardon him. I mean, Pence would be the President, and Trump would now be a private citizen. What could Trump do about it, except whine about how unfairly he’s being treated? ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/38 "2020-10-21T19:59:07Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > He still golfs and maybe talks some shit on Twitter, but he just refuses to take part in any Presidential duties. That’s basically what he does now. I don’t think anyone would take note of it. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/39 "2020-10-21T20:02:26Z")
If Pence runs for prez in 2024 I think he would have to pardon Trump to get the Trumpers to back him. Of course he may have to run against Trump in the 2024 primaries so in that case it won’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365/40 "2020-10-21T20:22:14Z")
Those are reasonable points. For Trump, though, pardons are something he can sell for cold hard rubles. So the batting order would be (1) sell pardons (profit!) and then (2) offer to step down and support Pence in '24 in return for a pardon today (editor’s note: he won’t honor this agreement). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-goes-too-quietly-a-hypothetical/923365.md?page=3)