# What if Trump implodes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 2, 2016, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-implodes/761528 "2016-08-02T04:39:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-implodes/761528/1 "2016-08-02T04:39:00Z")
First, I am Libertarian and will be voting for Gary Johnson as I did in 2012. What happens if Trump completely implodes? Can the Republican party nominate a replacement? Could they just have no nominee and endorse Johnson? Surely they can’t re-run the primaries. This would be the same question if a nominee died which has some precedent (in 2000 Missouri senator Mel Carnahan died and was elected a few weeks later). ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-implodes/761528/2 "2016-08-02T05:31:53Z")
In most states, there’s a deadline for putting a name on the ballot, which has already gone past in some cases. There is no legal precedent for changing the party’s nominee at this point in the process and no feasible outline for how it could be done. Now what could be legally done is all the Republic politicians could get together and give this message to their voters: “Look. Trump, on top of all the other awful things he’s done, is not really a Republican. He never has been with any consistency. He’s even donated money to Hillary, for crying out loud. But there will be an experienced, principled Republican politician on the ballot, one who successfully governed a state for two terms in addition to an impressive business career. Gary Johnson is the obvious choice for Republican voters in this presidential election. So just get over the marijuana business and vote for him already!” Well, we can dream, can’t we? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-implodes/761528/3 "2016-08-02T05:55:01Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Well, we can dream, can’t we? One man’s dream is another man’s nightmare. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-implodes/761528/4 "2016-08-02T05:58:13Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > There is no legal precedent for changing the party’s nominee at this point in the process and no feasible outline for how it could be done. So what happens if a presidential candidate dies-- or is assassinated-- while campaigning before the election? My guess is the the Vice president would take over, just like he would after the election. but I’m just guessing…is there a written protocol for this? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-implodes/761528/5 "2016-08-02T07:01:38Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > So what happens if a presidential candidate dies-- or is assassinated-- while campaigning before the election? > > My guess is the the Vice president would take over, just like he would after the election. > but I’m just guessing…is there a written protocol for this? Technically, we’re voting for electors not presidential candidates. So if a candidate “implodes” to the point where he announces he’s withdrawing from the race, the electors could vote for another candidate. Horace Greeley died a few weeks after the 1872 election and the electors mostly gave his electoral votes to Thomas Hendricks. It was a irrelevant issue as Ulysses Grant had won the election by a wide margin. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-implodes/761528/6 "2016-08-02T07:02:41Z")
Once a candidate is nominated and ballot deadlines have passed, there is no way to replace the candidate without finding favorable judges who would really like you to win. Mainstream Republicans should have been endorsing Johnson from the start. Unlike Trump, he’s an actual Republican and even has another actual Republican on the ticket with him. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-implodes/761528/7 "2016-08-02T07:24:02Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > In most states, there’s a deadline for putting a name on the ballot, which has already gone past in some cases. The deadlines for _independent_ candidates have already passed in some states, but the deadlines for major parties have not. In 2012, the DNC was in the first week of September, so the parties have at least a month more. > [@ITR\_champion](#): > > There is no legal precedent for changing the party’s nominee at this point in the process and no feasible outline for how it could be done. I’m pretty sure Trump can’t be replaced without him dying or giving his consent, but if either of those happened, the rules adopted at the convention will set out a procedure for choosing a replacement. Edit: [Here are the 2012 GOP rules](https://s3.amazonaws.com/prod-static-ngop-pbl/docs/Rules_of_the_Republican+Party_FINAL_S14090314.pdf) (PDF), which I think are the same as this year’s: > [@](#): > > RULE NO. 9 > Filling Vacancies in Nominations > > (a) The Republican National Committee is hereby authorized and empowered to fill any and all vacancies which may occur by reason of death, declination, or otherwise of the Republican candidate for President of the United States or the Republican candidate for Vice President of the United States, as nominated by the national convention, or the Republican National Committee may reconvene the national convention for the purpose of filling any such vacancies. > > (b) In voting under this rule, the Republican National Committee members representing any state shall be entitled to cast the same number of votes as said state was entitled to cast at the national convention. > > (c) In the event that the members of the Republican National Committee from any state shall not be in agreement in the casting of votes hereunder, the votes of such state shall be divided equally, including fractional votes, among the members of the Republican National Committee present or voting by proxy. > > (d) No candidate shall be chosen to fill any such vacancy except upon receiving a majority of the votes entitled to be cast in the election. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-implodes/761528/8 "2016-08-02T10:22:07Z")
Off to Elections. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-implodes/761528/9 "2016-08-02T11:03:39Z")
When it was still being speculated that Trump might run as an independent candidate, it was frequently stated that the deadline in Texas had already passed for filing as an independent. So I looked up what happens in Texas if the candidate of a party dies or wants to withdraw. [Texas Election Code § 192.062. Presidential or Vice-Presidential Party Nominee](http://codes.findlaw.com/tx/election-code/elec-sect-192-062.html) > [@](#): > > (a) The secretary of state shall certify in writing for placement on the ballot the name of a political party’s replacement nominee for president or vice-president of the United States if: > > (1) the original nominee withdraws, dies, or is declared ineligible on or before the 74th day before presidential election day;  and > > (2) the party’s state chair delivers certification of the replacement nominee’s name, signed by the state chair, to the secretary of state not later than 5 p.m. of the 71st70th [sic] day before presidential election day. > > (b) If the state chair’s certification of a replacement nominee is delivered by mail, it is considered to be delivered at the time of its receipt by the secretary of state. > > (c) The name of a nominee who has withdrawn, died, or been declared ineligible shall be omitted from the ballot and the name of the replacement nominee placed on the ballot if a replacement nominee is certified for placement on the ballot as provided by this section.  Otherwise, the withdrawn, deceased, or ineligible nominee’s name shall be placed on the ballot. > > (d) A vote for a withdrawn, deceased, or ineligible nominee whose name appears on the ballot shall be counted as a vote for the nominating political party’s presidential elector candidates. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-implodes/761528/10 "2016-08-02T11:11:38Z")
And to anticipate additional questions, here is how a political party gets its candidates’ names for president and vice president on the ballot in Texas: [Texas Election Code § 192.031. Party Candidate’s Entitlement to Place on Ballot](http://codes.findlaw.com/tx/election-code/elec-sect-192-031.html) > [@](#): > > (a) A political party is entitled to have the names of its nominees for president and vice-president of the United States placed on the ballot in a presidential general election if: > > (1) the nominees possess the qualifications for those offices prescribed by federal law; > > (2) the party’s state chair signs a written certification of: > > (A) the names of the party’s nominees for president and vice-president;  and > > (B) the names and residence addresses of presidential elector candidates nominated by the party, in a number equal to the number of presidential electors that federal law allocates to this state; > > (3) the party’s state chair delivers the written certification to the secretary of state before the later of: > > (A) 5 p.m. of the 71st70th [sic] day before presidential election day;  or > > (B) 5 p.m. of the first business day after the date of final adjournment of the party’s national presidential nominating convention;  and > > (4) the party is: > > (A) required or authorized by Subchapter A of Chapter 172  [FN1] to make its nominations by primary election;  or > > (B) entitled to have the names of its nominees placed on the general election ballot under Chapter 181. > > (b) If the state chair’s certification of the party’s nominees is delivered by mail, it is considered to be delivered at the time of its receipt by the secretary of state. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-implodes/761528/11 "2016-08-02T13:51:02Z")
It’s already happening. Trump’s latest- as he begins to accept that he’s not the second coming and will probably lose… _“I’m afraid the election’s going to be rigged. I have to be honest,” Trump told voters in Ohio, a crucial swing state._ > **[Trump: 'I'm afraid the election's going to be rigged' | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2016/08/01/politics/donald-trump-election-2016-rigged/index.html)** > > Donald Trump on Monday took his complaints about the "rigged" political system one step further. Of course, losing could never be his fault, it has to be the fault of the system. When he loses, he’s going to blame the Democrats for rigging the entire election. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-implodes/761528/12 "2016-08-02T14:35:19Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > In most states, there’s a deadline for putting a name on the ballot, which has already gone past in some cases. Does this mean that if Trump were to be assassinated or suffer a stroke/coma/heart attack, etc. at this time (or Hillary, for that matter) that a replacement candidate couldn’t be put on the ballot of those states? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-implodes/761528/13 "2016-08-02T14:48:07Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Mainstream Republicans should have been endorsing Johnson from the start. Unlike Trump, he’s an actual Republican and even has another actual Republican on the ticket with him. Seems like “actual Republicans” would be running with an (R) after their name, but maybe I fail to understand yet another facet of Libertarian doctrine. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-implodes/761528/14 "2016-08-02T14:52:16Z")
While I still think the odds are against it, it does seem like Trump might be hinting at quitting if things don’t go his way. We’re a long way from that, I suspect, and it’s unlikely. He could get a boost ten days from now and feel better. If he does quit, though, I am sure the laws of every state have some mechanism to handle such a scenario. After all, a candidate could die or be incapacitated, too. Someone’s thought of this. A more interesting question is: Who would the Republicans nominate? Would they slide Pence up and find a new VP pick, or would someone take it for the team? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-implodes/761528/15 "2016-08-02T14:58:57Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Of course, losing could never be his fault, it has to be the fault of the system. When he loses, he’s going to blame the Democrats for rigging the entire election. It would be disgusting if he does that. It’s one thing to lose; it’s quite another to falsely introduce doubt about the legitimacy of the election. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-implodes/761528/16 "2016-08-02T15:03:51Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > It’s one thing to lose; it’s quite another to falsely introduce doubt about the legitimacy of the election. Don’t we have folks here who claim that the 2000 election was “stolen” - rather than blaming Ralph Nader or the butterfly ballot? ---
**Author:** ![SaharaTea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SaharaTea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaharaTea)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-implodes/761528/17 "2016-08-02T15:10:35Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Does this mean that if Trump were to be assassinated or suffer a stroke/coma/heart attack, etc. at this time (or Hillary, for that matter) that a replacement candidate couldn’t be put on the ballot of those states? No, both parties have rules about filling a vacancy upon the death of a nominee. I believe the RNC can call another convention or just have state delegates vote in someone else. If there isn’t time for that, Congress could even vote to push back the election. I looked this up over the weekend because I would not be surprised if there was an attempt on either candidate’s life. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-implodes/761528/18 "2016-08-02T15:14:14Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > > > It’s one thing to lose; it’s quite another to falsely introduce doubt about the legitimacy of the election. > > Don’t we have folks here who claim that the 2000 election was “stolen” - rather than blaming Ralph Nader or the butterfly ballot? Al Gore didn’t and doesn’t do that and that’s my point. It’s one thing for some crackpot on the internet to claim the election was stolen. But it’s a bit more dangerous and destabilizing for the losing candidate to do so. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-implodes/761528/19 "2016-08-02T15:15:25Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Don’t we have folks here who claim that the 2000 election was “stolen” - rather than blaming Ralph Nader or the butterfly ballot? There’s a question as to whether the Supreme Court had any business butting into a state matter. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-implodes/761528/20 "2016-08-02T15:15:59Z")
[QUOTE=ITR Champion] There is no legal precedent for changing the party’s nominee at this point in the process and no feasible outline for how it could be done. [/Quote] Incorrect. When Thomas Eagleton [resigned as Democratic Vice Presidential nominee in 1972](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_McGovern_presidential_campaign,_1972) the Democratic National Committee chose his replacement. The process is the same in both parties for both P and VP nominees. Incidentally, Eagleton formally withdrew from the campaign on August 1, 1972. It gets trickier if the candidate changes after it’s too late to change the ballots. In Missouri, after Carnahan died, the Democrats settled on his wife as the replacement, and the governor promised to appoint her if the Democrats won the race. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-implodes/761528.md?page=2)