# What if Trump refuses to leave the WH? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 19, 2018, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-refuses-to-leave-the-wh/810845 "2018-03-19T20:22:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-refuses-to-leave-the-wh/810845/41 "2018-03-22T21:53:56Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > He’ll do it live!!! I’d like to think so. Punching out a dead guy is disrespectful. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-refuses-to-leave-the-wh/810845/42 "2018-03-22T22:06:20Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > I’m assuming there would be no optics, and he would be ushered into a car with blacked out windows in the garage. Yeah. I realized that after I entered my post. It’s a pretty loopy hypothetical overall though, so… why not?!? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-refuses-to-leave-the-wh/810845/43 "2020-05-29T21:35:17Z")
This thread from two years ago isn’t quite old enough to be a zombie. An idea that seemed moderately far-fetched back then was addressed in today’s New York Times as unreality continues to take over daily life. [ **President Trump Is a Doughnut** Will he concede if beaten by Joe Biden in November?](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/29/opinion/trump-2020-election.html) > [@](#): > > In a much-loved children’s story, “The Doughnuts” by Robert McCloskey, a boy, Homer Price, is left alone in his Uncle Ulysses’ luncheonette, where a newfangled doughnut machine has been installed. As he puts the final touches to it, Homer sets the machine in motion and finds he cannot stop doughnuts “comin’, an’ a comin’, an’ a comin’.” > > Trump resembles that doughnut machine in the Centerburg, Ohio, luncheonette, unable to stop lies from coming out of his pursed mouth at giddying velocity. There is a hole in the middle of everything the president says. > > In their new book, “Donald Trump and His Assault on Truth,” Glenn Kessler, Salvador Rizzo and Meg Kelly of The Washington Post clock the number of false or misleading statements from Trump at 16,241 in his first three years in office, or 15 a day. > > There were six such falsehoods a day in 2017, nearly 16 in 2018 and more than 22 in 2019. The mercury in the presidential mendacity meter is rising; so is the extent to which Americans are inured to Trump’s lying. Trump-speak, the fact checkers write, is a “constant stream of exaggerated, invented, boastful, purposely outrageous, spiteful, inconsistent, dubious and false claims.” > > This leads us to the most critical question for American democracy: Will President Trump concede if he is defeated by Joe Biden in the November election? Or put another way, can a liar accept a truth incompatible with his devouring ego? The need to pose these questions reflects the depth of the national nightmare. > > That Trump will spread disinformation over the coming months on an unprecedented scale is a given. But to some degree, that’s politics. The evidence that he will also encourage voter intimidation and suppression efforts is compelling. His attacks on the integrity of mail voting are relentless. That makes a lot of sense if he is planning to declare a state of emergency in battleground states and ban polling places from opening. > > He has amplified baseless claims of voter fraud in the same states. That makes a lot of sense if he is planning to declare the election was rigged and he won’t leave the White House. Hell, he even declared the election he won in 2016 was rigged. > … > > Trump is a coward. Perhaps if Biden wins, the president will skulk out of the White House like the little boy he is who never grew into a man. And the nightmare will be over. I don’t think so. The chances are growing that Trump will not concede in the event of a Biden victory, that he may encourage violence and use the fear and division spread by the virus to extend autocratic power. > > Trump is a doughnut. There is a hole in the middle of him where honesty, humanity, decency, morality and dignity never formed. He has done incalculable damage. Kessler and his colleagues quote Jonathan Swift: “As the vilest writer hath his readers, so the greatest liar hath his believers: and it often happens, that if a lie be believed only for an hour, it hath done its work.” Three and a half years of Trump lies have done their work. > … My emphasis. Remember an eternity ago when these ideas seemed nuts, even for trump? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-refuses-to-leave-the-wh/810845/44 "2020-05-29T21:45:39Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Remember an eternity ago when these ideas seemed nuts, even for Trump? The idea still seems nuts. The existence of a NYT op-ed piece doesn’t make it less so. **Manson** nailed it in post #2 above. For him to stay on as President after losing in the Electoral College would require a _coup d’état_ backed by well-coordinated and overwhelming armed force. Potshots here and there from PO’d Trump supporters won’t nearly get it done. Neither will gun-toting protests at state capitols or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-refuses-to-leave-the-wh/810845/45 "2020-05-29T23:03:23Z")
In the Pit Thread, there’s some discussion of whether he might start a war, either before the election, in a strategic bid to win, or after the election, in a petty “oh yeah?” attack on his successor. Dunno if this is the right thread for the subject… But as far as “refusing to leave,” no. There are enough law-enforcement agencies who still respect the constitution to keep that from being any kind of possibility. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-refuses-to-leave-the-wh/810845/46 "2020-05-30T00:04:30Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > This thread from two years ago isn’t quite old enough to be a zombie. An idea that seemed moderately far-fetched back then was addressed in today’s New York Times as unreality continues to take over daily life. In good news, the odds of Donald Trump getting a beatdown from Joe Biden are looking better day by day. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-refuses-to-leave-the-wh/810845/47 "2020-05-30T00:14:01Z")
> [@](#): > > The chances are growing that Trump will not concede in the event of a Biden victory, that he may encourage violence and use the fear and division spread by the virus to extend autocratic power. I think it’s a given Trump is going to dispute the outcome of the 2020. He disputed the outcome of the 2016 election and he won that one. And it’s almost a sure thing that Trump will call for an uprising if he loses the election. He’s threatened to do so repeatedly over lesser complaints. But an actual uprising? It’s not going to happen. Trump’s supporters are shadows of Trump himself. They may whine a lot but they’re too self-centered to actually put themselves at risk for Donald Trump or anyone else. When Trump issues his call to arms, the only thing this country will see is a massive outbreak of bone spurs. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-refuses-to-leave-the-wh/810845/48 "2020-05-30T00:18:58Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > I have this fantasy of the end of the Trump Presidency looking like [the arrest of Jerry Lundegaard in _Fargo_](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faVy85fIB2U). Except Trump would get stuck in the window, and they’d have to disassemble the window to get him out. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-refuses-to-leave-the-wh/810845/49 "2020-05-30T00:38:53Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think it’s a given Trump is going to dispute the outcome of the 2020. He disputed the outcome of the 2016 election and he won that one. > > And it’s almost a sure thing that Trump will call for an uprising if he loses the election. He’s threatened to do so repeatedly over lesser complaints. > > But an actual uprising? It’s not going to happen. Trump’s supporters are shadows of Trump himself. They may whine a lot but they’re too self-centered to actually put themselves at risk for Donald Trump or anyone else. When Trump issues his call to arms, the only thing this country will see is a massive outbreak of bone spurs. I don’t know about that. I doubt that there will be a popular uprising that keeps Trump in power, but that some of his followers may be inspired to become domestic terrorists seems likely to me. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-refuses-to-leave-the-wh/810845/50 "2020-05-30T02:24:08Z")
Domestic terrorism, yeah… It is astonishing to me that we got through all eight years of Obama’s two terms, and all four years of this jackanape’s term, without a serious assassination attempt. (May God forbid!) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-refuses-to-leave-the-wh/810845/51 "2020-05-30T03:37:17Z")
These guys aren’t going to shoot at anybody who looks like they might shoot back. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-refuses-to-leave-the-wh/810845/52 "2020-05-30T11:32:35Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think it’s a given Trump is going to dispute the outcome of the 2020. He disputed the outcome of the 2016 election and he won that one. “Don’t listen to FAKE NEWS that I am POTUS!!! Hillary Clinton got 3 million more votes! SHE is President! This is all HER fault!!! Hillary Clinton has done NOTHING about Wuhan Flu and worst unemployment since Great Depression and now rioting in streets!!! Do-Nothing Hillary is WORST PRESIDENT EVER!!! TRUMP 2020 MAGA!!!” ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-refuses-to-leave-the-wh/810845/53 "2020-05-30T11:39:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Just send Joe Biden over to punch him out. > [@Shodan](#): > > Put it on PPV, and watch support for impeachment double overnight. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Impunchment. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Is that part of the little-discussed Immauluments Clause? > [@QuickSilver](#): > > He’ll do it live!!! > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’d like to think so. Punching out a dead guy is disrespectful. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ataraxy22](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ataraxy22/32/307_2.png) [@ataraxy22](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ataraxy22)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-refuses-to-leave-the-wh/810845/54 "2020-05-30T11:46:00Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > “Don’t listen to FAKE NEWS that I am POTUS!!! Hillary Clinton got 3 million more votes! SHE is President! This is all HER fault!!! Hillary Clinton has done NOTHING about Wuhan Flu and worst unemployment since Great Depression and now rioting in streets!!! Do-Nothing Hillary is WORST PRESIDENT EVER!!! TRUMP 2020 MAGA!!!” Grovel before the Baal anus, worm! ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-refuses-to-leave-the-wh/810845/55 "2020-05-30T11:49:54Z")
If there’s a concern in terms of rigging the 2020 election, it’s that the states can use any method they want to determine how their electoral votes are cast. It’s a good thing that the Dems won the governorships of MI, PA, and WI in 2018, because if you had a Presidential swing state where the GOP controlled the governor’s mansion and the state legislature, you could see them passing a law giving the state legislature final say over the state’s choice of electors. After all, they almost did that in FL in 2000. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-refuses-to-leave-the-wh/810845/56 "2020-05-30T13:42:08Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Domestic terrorism, yeah… It is astonishing to me that we got through all eight years of Obama’s two terms, and all four years of this jackanape’s term, without a serious assassination attempt. (May God forbid!) There were [more than a few assassination attempts against Obama.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_threats_against_Barack_Obama) Maybe not good attempts, but some were trying. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-refuses-to-leave-the-wh/810845/57 "2020-05-30T19:24:38Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > “Don’t listen to FAKE NEWS that I am POTUS!!! Hillary Clinton got 3 million more votes! SHE is President! This is all HER fault!!! Hillary Clinton has done NOTHING about Wuhan Flu and worst unemployment since Great Depression and now rioting in streets!!! Do-Nothing Hillary is WORST PRESIDENT EVER!!! TRUMP 2020 MAGA!!!” It would be funny except Trump literally has blamed Obama for the poor response to the Covid19 crisis. That’s the problem with Trump parodies. You can’t make up anything so stupid that he hasn’t actually said something worse. ---
**Author:** ![Mallard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Mallard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mallard)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-refuses-to-leave-the-wh/810845/58 "2020-05-30T21:37:03Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > I think this was discussed here concerning if Obama refused to leave the White House … the National Park Service has management authority over the White House grounds and presumably the residence … typically the NPS follows local law concerning housing and evictions … so perhaps a DC landlord or lawyer can comment about how an eviction would be conducted if this was case … it’s called “due process of law” and even President Piss-Hair is entitled to such … what we don’t know is whether this can be filed the morning he was supposed to be gone, signed off by a judge before lunch and a gaggle of police there at the White House to remove the President with all necessary force in the afternoon … > > **The whole notion that he can be removed without the court’s approval is nonsense …**. Would someone like a Clarence Thomas actually be on side forcing Trump out? I’m not so sure… ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-refuses-to-leave-the-wh/810845/59 "2020-06-03T15:07:55Z")
This link was posted in the Clusterfuck thread, but it’s quite pertinent to the topic of this thread. [ **Trump Can’t Just Refuse to Leave Office** _We have a lot of things to worry about in the next eight months. This isn’t one of them._](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/06/trump-election-refusal-leave.html) I’d like to quote the whole thing (it’s short) but rules forbid. It’s not paywalled, and it might put a smile on your face. The success of this peaceful transition is predicated on the notion that trump is ultimately a wuss and a coward who will crumple like tinfoil when it gets down to the nut-cuttin’. And that enough people will decide to follow lawful procedures that any idea he has of blustering or bullying his way into hanging on to the office of president will fizzle out like a wet firecracker. One can only hope… ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-refuses-to-leave-the-wh/810845/60 "2020-06-03T21:02:27Z")
Well, crap. The following article from [Vox.com](http://Vox.com) pretty much dismantles the happy bedtime story in the [Slate.com](http://Slate.com) article just above. ☹ [ **Will he go?** _A law professor fears a meltdown this November._](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/6/3/21257133/trump-2020-election-meltdown-lawrence-douglas) > [@](#): > > **Sean Illing** [Vox Interviewer]: What worries you most about the November election? > > **Lawrence Douglas** [Interviewee, author of _Will He Go? Trump and the Looming Election Meltdown in 2020_]: To say that we’re facing a perfect storm is clichéd, but it does strike me that there are a lot of things coming together that could spell for a chaotic election. > > Foremost among them is the fact that we have a president of the United States who has pretty consistently and aggressively telegraphed his intention not to concede in the face of an electoral defeat, especially if that electoral defeat is of a very narrow margin. And it looks like it probably will be a narrow margin. In all likelihood, the 2020 election is going to turn on the results in probably the three swing states that determined the results in 2016: Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin. > > The other concern is that if we do fall into an electoral crisis and we start seeing the kinds of challenges to the results that we saw back in year 2000, during Bush v. Gore, then we could really see a meltdown because our contemporary political climate is so polarized. That’s what led me to start asking, what types of federal laws do we have in place? What kind of constitutional procedures do we have in place to right the ship? > > And what I found is that they just don’t exist. > > **Sean Illing** : What does that mean, exactly? Are we racing toward a constitutional crisis? > > **Lawrence Douglas** : In a word, yes. > > What makes our situation particularly dangerous is it’s not simply the statements that come out of Trump. We’re pretty used to Trump making statements that leave us all gobsmacked at this point. What worries me is that if there are going to be any guardrails protecting us from his attacks on the electoral process, it would have to come from the Republican Party. And we’ve seen that Republican lawmakers simply **are not prepared to hold this guy to account.** > … > > _\_ > … > > **Sean Illing** : It feels almost pointless to ask this question, but I’ll do it anyway: Are you confident that our constitutional system can handle what’s potentially coming in November? > > **Lawrence Douglas** : No. I have incredible respect and admiration for our constitutional system, but I’ll go back to one of the points you made, which is that the system really assumes that political actors have absorbed the norms that make the system work. But if you have a president who ignores those norms; if you have a party that ignores those norms, that continues to facilitate the rejection of those norms; and if you have a fractured media universe that rewards the president for rejecting those norms, then we’re in a very dangerous situation. > > The only real way to avoid this is to make sure we don’t enter into this scenario, and the best way to do that is to ensure that he loses decisively in November. That’s the best guarantee. That’s the best way that we can secure the future of a healthy constitutional democracy. Bold in original. Underlining is mine. Worth reading the whole thing. With a stiff drink in your hand. ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-refuses-to-leave-the-wh/810845.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-trump-refuses-to-leave-the-wh/810845.md?page=4)