# What if we did something different on Sunday morning? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 4, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-did-something-different-on-sunday-morning/680490 "2014-02-04T14:49:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Doyle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doyle/32/439_2.png) [@Doyle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doyle)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-did-something-different-on-sunday-morning/680490/21 "2014-02-04T20:12:31Z")
Episcopalian here and weekly attendee and hardly delusional. I actually enjoy going to church and also, seeing the money I give go to the needy and other giving programs is quite satisfying. We also are hardly devoid of science. My Sunday School class leader is a PhD research scientist at Tulane and in our class is a neurosurgeon. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-did-something-different-on-sunday-morning/680490/22 "2014-02-04T20:40:40Z")
Personally, I think it’s a bad idea to set aside some period of time specifically to do something like learn science, or for that matter practice religion, unless it’s something that absolutely requires it. Personally, I’d rather research scientific topics, or pursue spiritual matters whenever the mood strikes me, which is fairly often. Particularly to the OP, yes, I think it’s unfortunate that a lot of religious people aren’t scientifically literate but, intentionally or not, presenting religion and science as mutually exclusive isn’t fair. Personally, I don’t just wish religious people were more scientifically literate, but that everyone was, as I’ve known more than a few atheists who barely knew much either. And, for that matter, I wish more people were also more spiritually aware and literate. And this isn’t necessarily a matter of religious belief, but could be as simple as meditation, having an appreciation for our connection, comptemplating morals, and all of that sort of stuff. We’d all benefit from improving in both. > [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > The reason I said “instead” is that I don’t think I’ve heard anything new in Christianity in 20 years. And this is indicative of the issue. I’m not involved with a church, but I have family that is heavily involved, keeping up on this stuff, and they always have new things to share about various lessons, new scholarly research, etc. So, just at the same time where I may express interest in a new scientific discovery and they’re unaware, then they bring up something new and I’m unaware. It goes both ways. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-did-something-different-on-sunday-morning/680490/23 "2014-02-04T20:49:05Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > I wonder how things would change if everybody who attends church and tithes, instead took a couple hours on the weekend to learn about science. Maybe some lessons in logic and debunking medical woo. > > While we’re at it, instaed of throwing 10% of your money away on a church, what if everybody contributed an extra 10% of their income after taxes to scientific research of interest or benefit to them? :rolleyes: What makes you think we don’t? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-did-something-different-on-sunday-morning/680490/24 "2014-02-04T21:02:46Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Blaster Master** : > > Particularly to the OP, yes, I think it’s unfortunate that a lot of religious people aren’t scientifically literate but, intentionally or not, presenting religion and science as mutually exclusive isn’t fair. Moreover, it’s really bad for science, too. Entirely aside from the question of whether religion is right or not, the fact remains that people really, really like it. If you set it up as a choice of science versus religion, science is going to lose. Set them up as complements, though, and some of that popularity of religion is going to rub off onto science. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-did-something-different-on-sunday-morning/680490/25 "2014-02-04T21:08:33Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > I consider it to be the best se of money I make, as most of it goes to providing food, medicine, education and so forth to those in need. Does it? I always sort of assumed most of tithes go to supporting Church employees and buildings, but I’d be interested in a breakdown if you have it. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-did-something-different-on-sunday-morning/680490/26 "2014-02-04T21:14:20Z")
I go out for Sunday brunch early enough to beat the church crowd. I could do it differently and go later, but where’s the fun in that? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-did-something-different-on-sunday-morning/680490/27 "2014-02-04T21:18:21Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Moreover, it’s really bad for science, too. Entirely aside from the question of whether religion is right or not, the fact remains that people really, really like it. If you set it up as a choice of science versus religion, science is going to lose. Set them up as complements, though, and some of that popularity of religion is going to rub off onto science. Gosh, yes! Imagine how far science would have gotten if, instead of going after the facts no matter where they lead, they always went the _popular_ route! Astrology would be taught in today’s institutes of learning, we wouldn’t waste money on expensive telescopes because stars are just lights in the sky, and everything would be powered by cold fusion. Pray tell, what concessions would religion be making to this partnership? ---
**Author:** ![turtlescanfly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@turtlescanfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/turtlescanfly)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-did-something-different-on-sunday-morning/680490/28 "2014-02-04T21:27:28Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > What if _you_ did something different on Sunday mornings and started minding your own business? What the hell difference does it make to you that some people choose to spend an hour at church? > > You know, the thing I hate about most of the atheists on this board is their smug attitudes that everyone involved in religion is a backwards, ignorant creationist who breeds indiscriminately and somehow religious peoples’ IQ would be raised 30 points if they just stopped attending church. > > I don’t try to convert you. I couldn’t care less about what you do on Sunday. Stop trying to convert me. > > StG Thanks, **StGermain** for putting perfectly into words the feeling I get every time I see an anti-religion thread. ---
**Author:** ![turtlescanfly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@turtlescanfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/turtlescanfly)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-did-something-different-on-sunday-morning/680490/29 "2014-02-04T21:30:25Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Most of the atheists on this board aren’t trying to convert you. You have no idea that they’re atheists since they don’t bring it up very often. Perhaps convert is the wrong word, but I’m pretty sure the “Religion is stupid” threads FAR outnumber the “Religion is cool” threads on this board. It seems to me to be brought up QUITE often… ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-did-something-different-on-sunday-morning/680490/30 "2014-02-04T21:51:10Z")
Sure. Most atheists/agnostics/lapsed-christians wake up on Sunday and start catching up on science and solving pollution, sure. BTW, I have a nice bridge over the Humber and I’m ready to let it go for a sweet, sweet price. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-did-something-different-on-sunday-morning/680490/31 "2014-02-04T21:52:30Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Sure. Most atheists/agnostics/lapsed-christians wake up on Sunday and start catching up on science and solving pollution, sure. > > BTW, I have a nice bridge over the Humber and I’m ready to let it go for a sweet, sweet price. Reread the OP-I don’t think that’s what it said. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-did-something-different-on-sunday-morning/680490/32 "2014-02-04T21:54:29Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > I wonder how things would change if everybody who attends church and tithes, instead took a couple hours on the weekend to learn about science. Maybe some lessons in logic and debunking medical woo. > > While we’re at it, instaed of throwing 10% of your money away on a church, what if everybody contributed an extra 10% of their income after taxes to scientific research of interest or benefit to them? John Lennon wondered much the same thing and put his musings to music. Made about as much difference to society as this thread has, but it did make him millions more dollars. Lesson: don’t just muse, monetize. As for me and mine, we’re quite happy going to, supporting and being involved in a local church. Do I ever wonder how it would be different if we didn’t? Sure. Much the same way I wonder how it would be different if I woke up one day with a prehensile dong. Interesting thought experiment, but not gonna happen. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-did-something-different-on-sunday-morning/680490/33 "2014-02-04T21:58:04Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > …In short, while I will not tell you personally to quit doing to church and read an astronomy blog, I think it would be a good thing overall. Why don’t you recommend they go out Saturday night & look through a telescope? Then they can sleep in on Sunday. Why must they get their science predigested in little blog-size pellets while they sit on their ass? Getting out of the house occasionally is good for you–whether you go to church, to the museum or a friendly bar. Just don’t overdo any of them! (Some people can do more than one.) ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-did-something-different-on-sunday-morning/680490/34 "2014-02-05T00:29:06Z")
I watch Meet the Press on Sunday morning. Do I have to stop doing that too? ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-did-something-different-on-sunday-morning/680490/35 "2014-02-05T00:49:34Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > I wonder how things would change if everybody who attends church and tithes, instead took a couple hours on the weekend to learn about science. Maybe some lessons in logic and debunking medical woo . . . Good idea. The logic classes should address the fallacy of the false dichotomy. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-did-something-different-on-sunday-morning/680490/36 "2014-02-05T01:06:53Z")
I used to bartend, I love to drink now, but the amount of money and time spent doing nothing useful amazed me. If we’re going to start cutting corners on what people do to enjoy their free time lets start with bars. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-did-something-different-on-sunday-morning/680490/37 "2014-02-05T01:10:37Z")
Re: Lucky you. Where I come from, the largest items in the government budget are the military, pensions, Social Security, Medicare, and interest on the national debt. If you’re concerned about the plight of people in poor countries, then there’s really no way around it but to donate, either through your church or through some secular organization. We spend a trivial proportion of our tax money on foreign aid. Re: The reason I said “instead” is that I don’t think I’ve heard anything new in Christianity in 20 years. Christianity isn’t necessarily supposed to be about novelty (and new takes on Christianity do emerge all the time, but it’s more a matter of centuries than of decades). Why would you expect new Christianities to be popping up all the time? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-did-something-different-on-sunday-morning/680490/38 "2014-02-05T01:18:16Z")
Speaking as an Atheist, what organized religion really has going for it is community. Multiple generations of your neighbors gathering every week creates a sense of community. Sure there are downsides (xenophobia, gossip) but if there was an organized event every week with my neighbors without the magic show I’d go and take my kids. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-did-something-different-on-sunday-morning/680490/39 "2014-02-05T01:37:22Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Similarly, I wonder how the world would be different if people who now spend 10% of their money on churches instead spent it on hookers and blow. Why “instead of”? Why not both? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-did-something-different-on-sunday-morning/680490/40 "2014-02-05T02:55:02Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Moreover, it’s really bad for science, too. Entirely aside from the question of whether religion is right or not, the fact remains that people really, really like it. If you set it up as a choice of science versus religion, science is going to lose. Except that it hasn’t. Science and religion have been in conflict for centuries, and it’s been religion not science that has lost. Overwhelmingly. Religion as it is now in most of the world is a _crippled shadow_ compared to what it used to be. Science after all works, while religion doesn’t; societies that side with science over religion prosper, while those that choose religion don’t. And in the long run it turns out most people will choose longer life, fewer dead children and prosperity over religion. > [@Chronos](#): > > Set them up as complements, though, and some of that popularity of religion is going to rub off onto science. No; it means that religion will try to twist science into a religion-supporting pseudoscience, and that the believers will explode with rage at any supporters of science who fail to cave in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-did-something-different-on-sunday-morning/680490.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-did-something-different-on-sunday-morning/680490.md?page=3)