# What if we had caught Osama alive? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 3, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592 "2011-05-03T17:43:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/21 "2011-05-03T20:02:40Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > When and where were those tapes made? Who was present during the taping? Are the tapes authentic? Have they been edited? Could he have been coerced into making those tapes? Are the alleged confessions truthful? Is there any corroborative evidence? > > Is he competent to stand trial? > > What other witnesses does the prosecution know about? Where are they? How were they interrogated? Could they have any exculpatory evidence? What about favorable witnesses? Wiretaps? Recordings? How was information obtained, from who, when, where, under what conditions…all those questions and more are fair game for defense counsel. Watching bin Laden plead not guilty and destroy all his street cred would have been very entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/22 "2011-05-03T20:14:29Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Watching bin Laden plead not guilty and destroy all his street cred would have been very entertaining. Maybe so…but doesn’t change anything from a defense perspective. I’m not convinced the guy was competent to stand trial or even enter a plea…particularly in a death penalty case. And he wouldn’t be the first guy to forget about “street cred” when their own ass is on the line. My point being that regardless of how unpopular the guy is, there are numerous legitimate issues the defense could raise at trial. Figure in the fact that federal judges tend to be pretty independent, and unlikely to “play ball” with the prosecution on some of those issues, plus the fact that a “not guilty” verdict is absolutely unacceptable politically…and yeah…Osama was gonna catch lead in the raid, regardless of what he did. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/23 "2011-05-03T20:21:20Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I’m not convinced the guy was competent to stand trial or even enter a plea…particularly in a death penalty case. And he wouldn’t be the first guy to forget about “street cred” when their own ass is on the line. My point being that regardless of how unpopular the guy is, there are numerous legitimate issues the defense could raise at trial. I agree there are issues defense counsel could raise (assuming he acknowledged the court and aaccepted any). I don’t think batshit religious fanaticism makes you incapable to stand trial, if that’s your take on his competence. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/24 "2011-05-03T20:42:05Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t think batshit religious fanaticism makes you incapable to stand trial, if that’s your take on his competence. There’s more to it than that. The guy was living in relative isolation for years, allegedly in poor health–possibly with kidney problems, and may have had other medical conditions as well. Who knows what medications he may have taken, and how those ailments and/or meds may have affected his mind? It’s an obvious line of inquiry to pursue… ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/25 "2011-05-03T20:49:46Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > News to me – Bin Laden was [unarmed](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13274176) when he was killed. Resisted arrest, but was not armed, and got shot in the head twice? If that doesn’t at least strongly suggest they were going to kill him regardless, I don’t know what would. Like that scene at the beginning of _Saving Private Ryan_ when the German was trying to surrender with his hands raised: \ What was he saying? \ Look how clean my hands are. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/26 "2011-05-03T20:55:54Z")
[US team's mission was to kill bin Laden, not capture - The Jerusalem Post](http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=218831) It was a kill mission according to some military insiders. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/27 "2011-05-03T21:01:51Z")
> [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](#): > > [CNN is now reporting that bin Laden was not armed when he was shot.](http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/03/white-house-bin-laden-was-unarmed-when-killed/?hpt=T1)US forces had killed 3 on the first floor of the house, moved upstairs and found him on the third floor. [\*The New York Times \*reported that Osama bin Laden did, in fact, resist when found on the third floor.]([http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/world/asia/03intel.html?pagewanted=1&%2334&%2359;bin](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/world/asia/03intel.html?pagewanted=1&%2334&%2359;bin) Laden&sq&st=nyt&%2359; resisted&scp=2) The account is at the end of the front page article. Note that it is inferred that he did resist. Also note that it is not clear whether or not he was armed. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/28 "2011-05-03T21:07:42Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > There’s more to it than that. The guy was living in relative isolation for years “Relative isolation?” He chose to live in a mansion with 20 people, including two wives, a son, and a close associate. Most of us would love to be so isolated. [I’m hearing Sam Waterston deliver this and I’m again disappointed that not only will there be no trial, but that Law & Order can’t strip mine it for a few episode idea.] ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/29 "2011-05-03T21:09:38Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > [\*The New York Times \*reported that Osama bin Laden did, in fact, resist when found on the third floor.]([http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/world/asia/03intel.html?pagewanted=1&%2334&%2359;bin](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/world/asia/03intel.html?pagewanted=1&%2334&%2359;bin) Laden&sq&st=nyt&%2359; resisted&scp=2) The account is at the end of the front page article. Note that it is inferred that he did resist. Also note that it is not clear whether or not he was armed. Carney (a WH spokesman) is saying today that bin Laden resisted but was not armed. He’s being vague about that. The Times article is from yesterday, and previous reporting implied more strongly that bin Laden was armed. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/30 "2011-05-03T21:14:59Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > [\*The New York Times \*reported that Osama bin Laden did, in fact, resist when found on the third floor.]([http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/world/asia/03intel.html?pagewanted=1&%2334&%2359;bin](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/world/asia/03intel.html?pagewanted=1&%2334&%2359;bin) Laden&sq&st=nyt&%2359; resisted&scp=2) . Darn, he was on third floor. I though I had cleaned that one. Thanks for the tip, I just couldnt finish the game. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/31 "2011-05-03T21:15:10Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Carney (a WH spokesman) is saying today that bin Laden resisted but was not armed. He’s being vague about that. The Times article is from yesterday, and previous reporting implied more strongly that bin Laden was armed. Watching CNN. Wolf Blitzer is asking Denis R. McDonough, the Deputy National Security Adviser about the raid, any video of the actual operation? Blitzer asks. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/32 "2011-05-03T21:16:17Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Watching CNN. Wolf Blitzer is just now asking Denis R. McDonough, the National Security Adviser about the raid, any video of the actual operation? Blitzer asks. The government has said it does have the video and is considering releasing it. I don’t think they will do so deliberately. I think they’d rather release the photos and make sure they don’t give away any information about the Seals. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/33 "2011-05-03T21:25:19Z")
I think it could have been funny if Bin Laden had sought asylum in some country which by principle doesn’t extradite people to other countries where they’d risk being executed. Denmark probably would just have shipped him out, but Sweden for instance. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/34 "2011-05-03T21:29:18Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The government has said it does have the video and is considering releasing it. I don’t think they will do so deliberately. I think they’d rather release the photos and make sure they don’t give away any information about the Seals. Right now, “What Led to Bin Laden Capture” on CNN. Blitzer discussing with CNN team. If not video, or audio, or photos - at least, an article series about what happened with a timeline, for example, would suffice. Or a text transcipt would be welcomed, redacted if necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/35 "2011-05-03T21:30:21Z")
“Pakistan Might Have Shot At Navy Seals” on CNN, 5:27 pm. You were right **Marely23**. Any information about the Seals would be infomation, intentionally or unintentionally, detrimental. Even if it would be newsworthy. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/36 "2011-05-03T21:46:21Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > There’s more to it than that. The guy was living in relative isolation for years, allegedly in poor health–possibly with kidney problems, and may have had other medical conditions as well. Who knows what medications he may have taken, and how those ailments and/or meds may have affected his mind? It’s an obvious line of inquiry to pursue… Well, a vigorous defense has to pursue pretty much every angle - especially since, in this case, you’re really just trying to save your client from the needle. But this seems an awfully big stretch. I mean, OBL made taped statements for years after 9/11 in which he appeared perfectly lucid. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/37 "2011-05-03T21:48:30Z")
[conspiracy theory] Osama actually is still alive. They just want us to think he’s dead. They’ll torture information out of him for several months and then quietly dispose of him. [/conspiracy theory] ---
**Author:** ![Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tastes_of_chocolate/32/3232_2.png) [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/38 "2011-05-03T21:48:58Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > If Al Qaeda had the capability to launch an attack on the US every week, why aren’t they doing it now? Like, they weren’t really upset with us before we captured bin Laden, but now it’s on and the gloves come off? > > The gloves have been off for a decade, and there have been a few failed bombing attempts in the US during that time. Al Qaeda is already trying its best to hurt us, and its best isn’t very good. First, I never said that al Qaeda might attack the US once a week. What do you think would happen if the US had bin Laden in custody, and al Qaeda threatened to blow up a bomb in a subway train once a week, some place in the world, until the US released him. There is no way for the US to win that one. Second, I bet al Qaeda could attack US targets, if they were willing to go for smaller, less spectacular targets. Shopping malls, subways, sports games, high school proms. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/39 "2011-05-03T22:08:37Z")
> [@](#): > > First, I never said that al Qaeda might attack the US once a week. What do you think would happen if the US had bin Laden in custody, and al Qaeda threatened to blow up a bomb in a subway train once a week, some place in the world, until the US released him. There is no way for the US to win that one. Sure there is. We continue to hold him while the bombs continue to not go off, in exactly the same way that they’re not going off right now. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/40 "2011-05-03T22:11:45Z")
> [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](#): > > First, I never said that al Qaeda might attack the US once a week. What do you think would happen if the US had bin Laden in custody, and al Qaeda threatened to blow up a bomb in a subway train once a week, some place in the world, until the US released him. There is no way for the US to win that one. > > Second, I bet al Qaeda could attack US targets, if they were willing to go for smaller, less spectacular targets. Shopping malls, subways, sports games, high school proms. My thinking is that if al Qaeda was able to bomb a subway train once a week somewhere in the world, they would have already been doing so. Likewise with blowing up anything in the USA. They would love to. They don’t have the ability to do so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592.md?page=3)