# What if we had caught Osama alive? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 3, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592 "2011-05-03T17:43:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/41 "2011-05-03T22:16:55Z")
> [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](#): > > Second, I bet al Qaeda could attack US targets, if they were willing to go for smaller, less spectacular targets. Shopping malls, subways, sports games, high school proms. We’ve had that discussion here in the past . I think they might be able to do this if they were desperate (and trying to ransom bin Laden could quality), but the problem is that they just don’t have that many people, so going after softer, less spectacular targets is a bad use of their resources. People have attacked schools and malls before, and nobody is too afraid to go to school or the mall on account of terrorism. Subways probably shouldn’t be on the list, though - that’s a major target, at least in New York City, and they’ve tried it or considered it. And major league sporting events aren’t that soft a target either. The other problem with this idea is that Al Qaeda sucks. At terrorism, I mean, and at least in the U.S. Most of their best people are dead or out of action or on the run, so the organization is mostly down to an idea. The guys who have tried to attack the U.S. in recent years have been benchwarmers. I mean, compare the underwear bomber to Mohammed Atta. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/42 "2011-05-03T22:47:32Z")
On ABC World News, Jake Tapper, ABC WH correspondent said, “not able to watch any real time”, referring to ‘Situation Room’ photo. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/43 "2011-05-03T22:58:04Z")
Haven’t any of you ever seen a cowboy movie? “‘Dead or Alive’ means dead”, remember? He was always going to die resisting arrest. Too much cleanup to do if he were taken alive. And I’m OK with that, since he did confess to mass murder. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/44 "2011-05-03T23:25:50Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > On ABC World News, Jake Tapper, ABC WH correspondent said, “not able to watch any real time”, referring to ‘Situation Room’ photo. There were some reports elsewhere that CIA Director Panetta watched in real time from Langley and gave the White House (presumably verbal) updates. Maybe that photo shows them during that process. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/45 "2011-05-03T23:26:57Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Well, a vigorous defense has to pursue pretty much every angle - especially since, in this case, you’re really just trying to save your client from the needle. But this seems an awfully big stretch. I mean, OBL made taped statements for years after 9/11 in which he appeared perfectly lucid. Yeah, it’s something of a stretch, but the question for this purpose is whether or not he is competent to stand trial now, not whether he was competent when the videos were allegedly made, or when other criminal acts allegedly occurred. I suspect the answer is probably yes, he is now and always has been competent, he’s just evil incarnate. But if I’m trying the case, you know I’ll be filing the motion for a psych eval along with everything else. See what the report shows, go from there. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/46 "2011-05-03T23:48:41Z")
Might be worth pointing out that ‘unarmed’ in this situation might be pretty hard to be sure about. The possibility of some ability to let off explosives to destroy the compound would normally be James Bond material but was something you’d have to consider in a situation like that. Otara ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/47 "2011-05-03T23:49:01Z")
Ten years ago, right after 9/11, I posted here that Bin Ladin would never be captured alive. Even if he pulled a Sadam and surrendered I would bet my life that the SEALs had off-the-record orders that he be killed no matter what. Think about it. The USA has absolutely nothing what-so-ever to gain and a million possible things to lose if he were taken alive and put on trial. And the more time that went by the more certain it was that he’d be executed. After almost a decade no one wanted to make the events of 9/11 fresh again. I hope it happened like in the South Park episode (again almost ten years ago!) After Cartman finishes the Bugs Bunny routine a soldier just walks up behind Bin Ladin and caps him in the head. I think Stone & Parker were actually saying they hope this happens too! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/48 "2011-05-03T23:53:29Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > Think about it. The USA has absolutely nothing what-so-ever to gain and a million possible things to lose if he were taken alive and put on trial. Do you figure the USA had something to gain if he were taken alive and interrogated? ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/49 "2011-05-04T01:32:30Z")
> [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](#): > > [CNN is now reporting that bin Laden was not armed when he was shot.](http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/03/white-house-bin-laden-was-unarmed-when-killed/?hpt=T1) On \*The New York Times \*[website](http://www.nytimes.com/), the headline is: Bin Laden Was Unarmed But ‘Resisted’ Last Update: 8:51 PM ET. > [@Marley23](#): > > Carney (a WH spokesman) is saying today that bin Laden resisted but was not armed. He’s being vague about that. The Times article is from yesterday, and previous reporting implied more strongly that bin Laden was armed. We’ll see tomorrow if this developing Times article goes through the editorial process and is in print, is in the final edition - May 4, 2011. Apparently the WH Press Corps got more information about what happened at the WH press conference today. (To think that a few days ago they were at the HWCA dinner.) A couple of preliminary questions: What is the editorial decision behind putting the word _resisted_ in quotes? Why isn’t unarmed in quotes? I can picture Armed And Resisted Unarmed But ‘Resisted’ :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/50 "2011-05-04T02:00:05Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Carney (a WH spokesman) is saying today that bin Laden resisted but was not armed. He’s being vague about that. The Times article is from yesterday, and previous reporting implied more strongly that bin Laden was armed. The encounter probably went something like this: Watch it, he’s giving us the stink eye!!! Blam blam. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/51 "2011-05-04T04:22:09Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The conservatives would not permit us to put him on trial in America. They are too afraid of a trial on our soil. So we would have to try him in a military court somewhere else. I don’t know about that - y’all tried and hanged Saddam, didn’t you ? [QUOTE=Kozmik] I can picture Armed And Resisted Unarmed But ‘Resisted’ :dubious: [/QUOTE] Maybe he had a golf club and the SEALs mistook it for a sword ? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/52 "2011-05-04T10:08:02Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Like that scene at the beginning of _Saving Private Ryan_ when the German was trying to surrender with his hands raised: > \ What was he saying? > \ Look how clean my hands are. If you speak Czech, that scene is even more powerful: “The two “German” soldiers who are shot trying to surrender were speaking Czech. They were saying, “Please don’t shoot me, I am not German, I am Czech, I didn’t kill anyone, I am Czech!” They were members of what the Germans called Ost East Battalions, men - mostly Czech and Polish - taken prisoner in eastern European countries invaded by Germany and forced into the German army.” IMDB ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/53 "2011-05-04T11:27:45Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Well, they pretty much have to say that, but I do not believe there was ever any serious intent to take the guy alive. A trial is just too messy. Any defense lawyer worth his salt is going to demand access to all sorts of classified material the government is not going to want to turn over–and if they don’t turn it over in civilian courts, the evidence can’t be used. Even the considerably more restrictive military tribunal option poses major problems with access to evidence and witnesses. > > The written orders, if any, likely said “capture or kill”, but I strongly suspect the unspoken understanding was “kill”. And I don’t have a problem with that. In this case, I do. It reinforces the impression that we are hunting down Islamists like beasts, and that we have scapegoated Binladin too much to handle the truth. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/54 "2011-05-04T11:30:37Z")
It does nothing of the sort (unless you’ve already decided to believe that sort of nonsense). There is, of course, a difference between Islamists and jihadists, and nobody paying attention really believes that we’re hunting down Islamists at all, let alone “like beasts”. And of course the whole “you can’t handle the truth!” nonsense has no bearing on the matter. Not wanting to give Bin Laden a platform and a media circus, and/or not wanting to pay the cost of a fantastically expensive and drawn out trial has nothing to do with scapegoating anybody or not being able to handle some sort of truth. You can spin any fact into some sort of conspiracy theory, but that doesn’t make it a very good idea to do so. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/55 "2011-05-04T13:29:13Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I don’t know about that - y’all tried and hanged Saddam, didn’t you ? Saddam was tried in the Iraqi courts. ---
**Author:** ![Scot\_Dutch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Scot\_Dutch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scot_Dutch)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/56 "2011-05-04T14:24:02Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > In this case, I do. It reinforces the impression that we are hunting down Islamists like beasts, and that we have scapegoated Binladin too much to handle the truth. Not Islamists…terrorists who happened to be Islamists. Terrorists ARE beasts, regardless of motivation. Bin Laden alive and in US custody would have been a ridiculous circus. It would have dragged on for months or years. Over the last 48 hrs I’ve been considering what we know about this mission, and trying to think if anything should have been done differently. So far I haven’t come up with a single thing. Militarily and politically, everything was done perfectly. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/57 "2011-05-04T14:52:54Z")
This reminds me of the time, years ago, when a guy drove up to the Washington Monument in a van that he claimed was filled with explosives. Later, he tried to drive away and was killed. The police claimed they were not specifically trying to kill him, yet he was shot 5 times in the head. I guess they thought it would take 6 or 7 to be fatal. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/58 "2011-05-04T20:47:56Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > [conspiracy theory] > Osama actually is still alive. They just want us to think he’s dead. They’ll torture information out of him for several months and then quietly dispose of him. > [/conspiracy theory] I think a lot of people are thinking this ---
**Author:** ![Raintitan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e99b99/32.png) [@Raintitan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raintitan)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/59 "2011-05-04T21:07:48Z")
Dalton Fury (pen name), the ex Delta Force commander whose accounting “Kill Bin Laden” accounts the attempt to kill him at Tora Bora. It was very clear regarding their orders. He was to be shot in the head and killed and evidence or his body retrieved. As with the recent action that accomplished this, great risk was taken then to get Special Ops guys in a position to accomplish this. I can’t characterize it anywhere near as well as the book but Bin Laden was not going to be kept alive because of the circus and issues that would result. He might have walked out naked with a pot full of daisies, some cupcakes and a great smile for all we know but he was going to die regardless. The team that pulled this off had a large level of control over the outcome. I understand the OP is curious about the possibilities of him being captured alive, but I wanted to share this. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592/60 "2011-05-04T21:11:46Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I think a lot of people are thinking this Could you be any more specific about what constitutes “a lot?” > [@Raintitan](#): > > Dalton Fury (pen name), the ex Delta Force commander whose accounting “Kill Bin Laden” accounts the attempt to kill him at Tora Bora. It was very clear regarding their orders. Interesting and relevant, although it’s also true that that was almost 10 years ago under a different administration. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-caught-osama-alive/580592.md?page=4)