# What if we had ignored 9/11? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 30, 2016, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-ignored-9-11/756103 "2016-05-30T17:41:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-ignored-9-11/756103/61 "2016-06-04T04:21:25Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > There once was a TV show called _The West Wing._ One of the characters was a fictional president of the USA. There’s a scene where he’s calling for vengeance against some country for an attack of some kind, and wants to kill 1000 of their people for every American life lost. His chief of staff tries to calm him down and accept proportionate response. [Nitpick] Bartlett doesn’t call for a thousand deaths for every American death. In that scene, he’s just learned that a close, personal friend was killed in a state-sponsored terrorist attack. Angry, he says that in the days of the Roman Empire, a Roman citizen could walk from one end of the empire to the other, and nobody would touch him. Leo points out that the Romans could do that because they had a policy of killing a thousand people for every Roman citizen killed, and is that how Bartlett wants to run US foreign policy? Which gets Bartlett to calm down and consider more realistic options. [/Nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-ignored-9-11/756103/62 "2016-06-04T08:52:33Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > THIS. > > Does OP even realize that 9/11 wasn’t the first time Al-Qaeda tried to destroy the World Trade Center? They tried it in 1993, but the explosive wasn’t powerful enough. The US took a measured, restrained response to the incident… And you see what happened. > > I get incredibly angry when I see people who think the whole history of terrorism begins on 9/11. The US has spent over a decade exercising restraint and patience with Al-Qaeda, and the problem just got worse. This is the fundamental truth about American terrorism policy: We tried peace, we tried law enforcement, we tried ignoring it, and we tried measured responses. IT DIDN’T WORK. The War on Terror had to happen because - and this is important - WE TRIED EVERYTHING ELSE AND IT DIDN’T. FUCKING. WORK. I’m curious if you even know why Al-Qaeda targeted us in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-ignored-9-11/756103/63 "2016-06-04T18:08:30Z")
30 years of wanton Imperialism on four continents? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-ignored-9-11/756103/64 "2016-06-04T19:12:19Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > THIS. > > Does OP even realize that 9/11 wasn’t the first time Al-Qaeda tried to destroy the World Trade Center? They tried it in 1993, but the explosive wasn’t powerful enough. The US took a measured, restrained response to the incident… And you see what happened. > > I get incredibly angry when I see people who think the whole history of terrorism begins on 9/11. The US has spent over a decade exercising restraint and patience with Al-Qaeda, and the problem just got worse. This is the fundamental truth about American terrorism policy: We tried peace, we tried law enforcement, we tried ignoring it, and we tried measured responses. IT DIDN’T WORK. The War on Terror had to happen because - and this is important - WE TRIED EVERYTHING ELSE AND IT DIDN’T. FUCKING. WORK. And invading Iraq _totally_ worked. We know this, because since that happened, terrorism has completey stopped. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-ignored-9-11/756103/65 "2016-06-04T20:31:17Z")
> [@White SIFL](#): > > I’m curious if you even know why Al-Qaeda targeted us in the first place. According to some posts in this thread, they attacked in order to provoke us into passing the Patriot Act. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-ignored-9-11/756103/66 "2016-06-05T04:10:44Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > And invading Iraq _totally_ worked. We know this, because since that happened, terrorism has completey stopped. Okay, then, Plan C. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-ignored-9-11/756103/67 "2016-06-05T04:24:46Z")
> [@Giraffes\_Can\_t\_Dance](#): > > The ignoring strategy in response to terrorism employed by Bill Clinton birthed 911. Is there a reason you neglected to mention Reagan’s inaction after the Marine barracks was bombed in Lebanon? BTW, I believe Clinton came close to killing bin Laden in Afghanistan after the African embassy bombings. Just so you know. > [@Giraffes\_Can\_t\_Dance](#): > > The OP’s question is truly about the wars that followed 911. Such wars were not the result of 911. Anyone believing so is a mediocre revisionist History professor at a third-rate community college. > > Those wars were the result of dysfunctional intelligence, and a Tyrant who balked at the UN’s inspection demands. “Dysfunctional” does not mean “fictional”. And a “tyrant” who balks at the UN’s inspection demands is no excuse for dropping bombs on people who had no say in it. More than a hundred thousand civilian deaths is hardly collateral damage, although it does provide an excellent reason for the survivors to hate America. > [@Giraffes\_Can\_t\_Dance](#): > > It’s fun to spin things after the fact; and it’s nice that Clinton “wanted to do something, but was dissuaded”, but the truth is, he actually did very little. Clinton’s lack of action fueled their rise. > [@Giraffes\_Can\_t\_Dance](#): > > I’m not sure who’s worse: The guy suggesting that Clinton’s non-action in opposition to terrorism was justified by his post-presidential tough talk; or the guy who just linked nonsense providing no insight as to his opinion. > > The ignorance of revisionist history is bliss! Ah, now I see that you’re only interested in perpetuating your biases, not in learning anything. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-ignored-9-11/756103/68 "2016-06-05T09:33:54Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > [Nitpick] > Bartlett doesn’t call for a thousand deaths for every American death. In that scene, he’s just learned that a close, personal friend was killed in a state-sponsored terrorist attack. Angry, he says that in the days of the Roman Empire, a Roman citizen could walk from one end of the empire to the other, and nobody would touch him. Leo points out that the Romans could do that because they had a policy of killing a thousand people for every Roman citizen killed, and is that how Bartlett wants to run US foreign policy? Which gets Bartlett to calm down and consider more realistic options. > [/Nitpick] I stand corrected. Still, the way Jeb behaved when angry would have made him a nightmare without Leo to keep him tethered, more than once. I submit that in real life, Dick Cheney didn’t have a Leo to talk him down–or got rid of his Leo. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-ignored-9-11/756103/69 "2016-06-05T09:35:31Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > And invading Iraq _totally_ worked. We know this, because since that happened, terrorism has completey stopped. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Okay, then, Plan C. What’s that, bow before the “caliph” of Daesh and commit mass suicide? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-ignored-9-11/756103/70 "2016-06-05T11:08:22Z")
> [@Giraffes\_Can\_t\_Dance](#): > > It’s fun to spin things after the fact; and it’s nice that Clinton “wanted to do something, but was dissuaded”, but the truth is, he actually did very little. Clinton’s lack of action fueled their rise. Do you think that when Clinton ordered the cruise missile strikes in 1998 and Republicans accused him of doing so for the sole purpose of distracting attention from Monica Lewinsky, that Republicans were doing an even greater disservice to the threat of Al Qaeda? I mean, how can so many Republican elected leaders have been so throughly ignorant of Al Qaeda as to say that attacking their training camps was the wrong thing to do? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-ignored-9-11/756103/71 "2016-06-06T11:55:20Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > According to some posts in this thread, they attacked in order to provoke us into passing the Patriot Act. I think that was just a bonus. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-ignored-9-11/756103/72 "2016-06-07T14:20:37Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > I think that was just a bonus. So, their main goal was to have us wipe out there C&C, destroy their bases and push them back to living in caves and hunting them down with drones, but it was just a bonus for them to get the Patriot Act enacted? I can see how they would benefit from all those things, yeah… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-ignored-9-11/756103/73 "2016-06-13T02:09:03Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I think the response to 9/11 should have been to treat it as a crime and involve police tactics and the intelligence community to identify those responsible and bring them to justice. Invading Iraq and Afghanistan in response was clearly a mistake. This. There were so many things wrong with how the US reacted to 9/11. The fact that: 1. it was never investigated properly as a crime, 2. The crime scene was cleaned and scrubbed starting before the dust had literally settled, 3. The US attacked a country that had nothing to do with the attacks (but does have LOTS of oil! Probably just a coincidence.) I think there should have been a complete and thorough investigation. Once complete, the guilty should have been punished appropriately… This would have taken some time, but it would have cost so much less in lives and treasure. (And it would have had the added bonus of punishing those actually responsible.) ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-ignored-9-11/756103/74 "2016-06-13T02:32:19Z")
> [@crypto](#): > > This. > > There were so many things wrong with how the US reacted to 9/11. > > The fact that: > **1) it was never investigated properly as a crime, > 2) The crime scene was cleaned and scrubbed starting before the dust had literally settled,** > 3) The US attacked a country that had nothing to do with the attacks (but does have LOTS of oil! Probably just a coincidence.) > \*\* > > I think there should have been a complete and thorough investigation. Once complete, the guilty should have been punished appropriately… \*\* > > This would have taken some time, but it would have cost so much less in lives and treasure. (And it would have had the added bonus of punishing those actually responsible.) What do you think the PENTTBOM investigation was? And who do you think was guilty? Not al-Qaeda? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-ignored-9-11/756103/75 "2016-06-13T03:18:42Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > I get incredibly angry when I see people who think the whole history of terrorism begins on 9/11. The US has spent over a decade exercising restraint and patience with Al-Qaeda, and the problem just got worse. This is the fundamental truth about American terrorism policy: We tried peace, we tried law enforcement, we tried ignoring it, and we tried measured responses. IT DIDN’T WORK. The War on Terror had to happen because - and this is important - WE TRIED EVERYTHING ELSE AND IT DIDN’T. FUCKING. WORK. What would have worked? Assume I’m asking as a friend who would have supported glassing wherever this thing came from. What response would have put this thing to bed before it started? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-ignored-9-11/756103/76 "2016-06-13T05:00:27Z")
My miscellaneous comments. > [@Dinsdale](#): > > Immediately after the 9/11 we enjoyed unprecedented international support. If only we’d used that in some creative way to advance the desirable aspects of the American way of life - rather than succumbing to the worst aspects of TAWOL - interventionism and fear. Or better yet, used the international support to advance world peace. I think there might have been a once-in-a-century opportunity to make grand bargains: "Pakistan - your only priority now is to fight the Taliban and other terrorists. The good news is: Kashmir is yours. "India - Evacuate Kashmir. This is how you can help. Get over it. "Israel - start packing up the settlements. Now. “Arab terrorists - Desist or your people will be napalmed” ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I think the response to 9/11 should have been to treat it as a crime and involve police tactics and the intelligence community to identify those responsible and bring them to justice. While Cheney, Rove and their stooge _over_-reacted to the tragedy, an under-reaction would have failed for several reasons. And the government of Afghanistan did not appear receptive to extradition requests; and indeed was run by criminals closely allied ideologically with al-Qaeda. Would you have reacted to the attack on Pearl Harbor by politely asking Japan to extradite Admiral Yamamoto? ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Do you mean business as usual like maintain bases in their holy land and starve thousands of Iraqi children with sanctions, etc? Yes another attack would have happened. > > If you mean business as usual and stop antagonizing, starving, and meddling while learning some things about airline security? Who knows what would happen, we never tried it. Yes, it’s good to remember that by 2001, U.S. sanctions were doing more harm to the Iraqi people than Saddam was then doing. And Saddam, the House of Saud, the Taliban, and even indirectly al-Qaeda itself were all created or propped up by the U.S. to further its own interests. Some U.S. interventions, e.g. in Bosnia or Kosovo, were the actions of an altruistic world cop. But many Americans lose sight that coups in Latin America and the Islamic world, corrupt and evil governments in Iraq and Arabia, the bloody Iran-Iraq War, and worse, resulted directly from cynical U.S. policies. Although his view is too one-dimensional, **WillFarnaby** has a good perspective here. (Too bad he’s drunk the Alabama YouTube Kool-Aid on economic matters.) ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > [@AHunter3](#): > > Something that is easily forgotten in the wake of all that happened since then is that Dubya ran on a platform of American isolationism: let the rest of the world handle their own damn problems, we aren’t interested in boosting y’all out of poverty or being the world’s policeman. Do you _really_ believe Cheney and his puppet were opposed to the use of American military to further corporate interests and prop up Saudi and Israel? 😕 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-ignored-9-11/756103.md?page=3)