# What If We Had Kept The Victorian Look/Worldview Today? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 30, 2010, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-kept-the-victorian-look-worldview-today/555590 "2010-09-30T12:04:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-kept-the-victorian-look-worldview-today/555590/21 "2010-10-02T05:51:35Z")
Yeah, no thanks. There’s never been a better time to be a woman than right now. Going to a time where I’d have no legal rights? DNW. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-kept-the-victorian-look-worldview-today/555590/22 "2010-10-02T08:43:53Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Then I could find my dresses from sites like [this one](http://antiquedress.com/) or [this one](http://www.vintagetextile.com). I could wear designs from the Houses of Worth, Pingat, etc. Only problem I see whit those sites is they seem to be selling silk as wearable … and silk over about 10 years old tends to ‘shatter’ and the older it is, the worse it will shatter.. as durable as silk is, it reacts quite badly to being stored improperly, cleaning fluids, the alcohol in perfumes, hair sprays, makeup or random spills. Insects love to nibble on it. Unless you are just going to use it as an exemplar for making a replacement garment I fear that you would be very disappointed in buying an old silk garment if you intend to wear it. I have an absolutely beautiful dress from a great grandmother [white floral sprigged taffeta under an over wrap of black tulle embroidered with a floral pattern, and embellished with black velvet and ivory lace] that I barely like to even bring out of the box and let people handle the silk in it is so delicate. [It is about 115 years old] ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-kept-the-victorian-look-worldview-today/555590/23 "2010-10-02T13:08:28Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > Under the Victorian worldview, the British Empire would still be fighting rebellions in it’s many colonies since it would NOT have granted any of them any freedom, damn the cost. You’re saying that like it’s a bad thing. 😛 To be fair, the British did grant various degrees of independence to some of their Colonies during the Victorian Era or shortly afterwards- just not the ones largely full of [del]Natives[/del] Non-Europeans, which (to paraphrase Calvin Harris) was Acceptable In the 1880s. > [@Oakminster](#): > > > [@ralph124c](#): > > > > Think of the British army, in pith helmets and red tunics, fighting in Afghanistan (instead of those camoflage outfits). > > Think of Darwin laughing as those soldiers in bright red tunics are picked off by snipers with enough sense to use camoflage. British Soldiers starting wearing Khaki during the Sudanese Campaign during the late 1880s precisely because red was a bit obvious a colour to be wearing when fighting other people who had guns. Up until that point, most of the people the British fought tended to think cow-hide shields were sufficient protection against small arms ammunition and that pointy sticks were a perfectly sensible thing to be using against Maxim guns. Even as early as the Zulu War, British soldiers had taken to dying their pith helmets with tea to make them less conspicuous. I’d like to think that if we’d kept the Victorian Outlook/Worldview today then I’d be sitting on the verandah in my large home located in the colony of British Martiniland (named after me, of course, for my many services to the Empire and key role in establishing the Colony) typing this on my Electrical Telegraph-Typing Machine after a hard day of adventuring, as servants bring my family and I Singapore Slings and fan us as we listen to the Phonograph. 😃 Seriously though, the Victorian Era would have been pretty good if you were a White Male who wasn’t horribly poor and uneducated. For everyone else it would have been… less good. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-kept-the-victorian-look-worldview-today/555590/24 "2010-10-02T19:06:48Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > > [@Guinastasia](#): > > > > Then I could find my dresses from sites like [this one](http://antiquedress.com/) or [this one](http://www.vintagetextile.com). I could wear designs from the Houses of Worth, Pingat, etc. > > Only problem I see whit those sites is they seem to be selling silk as wearable … and silk over about 10 years old tends to ‘shatter’ and the older it is, the worse it will shatter.. as durable as silk is, it reacts quite badly to being stored improperly, cleaning fluids, the alcohol in perfumes, hair sprays, makeup or random spills. Insects love to nibble on it. Unless you are just going to use it as an exemplar for making a replacement garment I fear that you would be very disappointed in buying an old silk garment if you intend to wear it. I have an absolutely beautiful dress from a great grandmother [white floral sprigged taffeta under an over wrap of black tulle embroidered with a floral pattern, and embellished with black velvet and ivory lace] that I barely like to even bring out of the box and let people handle the silk in it is so delicate. [It is about 115 years old] Meh, I’ll just have a seamstress make me replicas. 😃 (And I hear you about said sites, I just LOOOOOOVE to look at them! ---
**Author:** ![Lissla\_Lissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lissla\_Lissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissla_Lissar)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-kept-the-victorian-look-worldview-today/555590/25 "2010-10-02T23:56:10Z")
I thought it was mostly weighted silks that shattered (silks stiffened with metallic salts to give them better drape) . I have a 1908 evening dress with the lining in pieces but the silk satin outside is in perfect and wearable condition. Victorian corsets were relatively comfy. Compared with Edwardian ones, at least. I like some Victorian styles, but personally I’m big on washable fabrics. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-kept-the-victorian-look-worldview-today/555590/26 "2010-10-03T08:59:26Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > > [@Oakminster](#): > > > > Think of Darwin laughing as those soldiers in bright red tunics are picked off by snipers with enough sense to use camoflage. > > British Soldiers starting wearing Khaki during the Sudanese Campaign during the late 1880s precisely because red was a bit obvious a colour to be wearing when fighting other people who had guns. The aforementioned _The Difference Engine_ actually goes into this—a character at one point sees some British army soldiers wearing “very latest and most efficient British military gear, dun-colored Crimean battle-garb, scientifically spattered to deceive the enemy eye. The clever fabric had utterly confused the Russians, by all accounts.” Since other parts of the story mentioned patterned fabric woven by Babbage-engine controlled looms using pure math as a pattern, it might have looked like…[this](http://lh3.ggpht.com/_dCGEqMcSs4M/SBGrKni __rI/AAAAAAAAAHM/92s__ TqLUdI/cadpat_arid.jpg). 😃 Back to the subject, though…you think we have environmental issues _now?_ Try living in a world ruled by _two_ hundred years of coal-fired Victorian gentlemen. Unless, of course, there’d been _some_ technological innovation, in which case you’ve got a hundred years of Victorian society with petroleum and fissile fuels. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-kept-the-victorian-look-worldview-today/555590/27 "2010-10-03T14:39:15Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > Yeah, no thanks. There’s never been a better time to be a woman than right now. Going to a time where I’d have no legal rights? DNW. Actually that would be the time when the basis of the rights that you enjoy came into being. The Married Women’s Property Act allowed women to own property in their own name after marriage The Divorce Act permitted dissolution of marriage The Offences Against the Person Act 1861, for the first time criminalize physical attacks on a spouse in England and Wales There was also a lot more progressive legislation which changed things for the better in the field of Labour Laws, rights of children etc etc. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-kept-the-victorian-look-worldview-today/555590/28 "2010-10-03T16:21:22Z")
> [@](#): > > The Married Women’s Property Act allowed women to own property in their own name after marriage What year, what area? My grandmother inherited some property in the 60s or 70s, and my grandfather was able to legally sell that property without her consent. This all took place in Texas. Had my grandfather inherited property, my grandmother would not have been able to sell it, legally, without his consent. So even though it was legal for my grandmother to own property, apparently she didn’t have full control over what happened to it. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-kept-the-victorian-look-worldview-today/555590/29 "2010-10-03T18:02:39Z")
Keeping the Victorian mindset would involve seeing the horrors of World War I without being subsequently influenced by them, a practical impossibility. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-kept-the-victorian-look-worldview-today/555590/30 "2010-10-03T23:28:11Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > Keeping the Victorian mindset would involve seeing the horrors of World War I without being subsequently influenced by them, a practical impossibility. WWI was more Edwardian than Victorian. And people were influenced by the horrors of WWI- that’s why WWII was fought without the use of Poison Gas (against military targets) and the whole Blitzkreig thing was so successful. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-kept-the-victorian-look-worldview-today/555590/31 "2010-10-04T00:16:24Z")
To sum up, steampunk is a cool cartoon concept but it would be hell to live in. ---
**Author:** ![Rubik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/dec6dc/32.png) [@Rubik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubik)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-kept-the-victorian-look-worldview-today/555590/32 "2010-10-04T00:19:33Z")
Ah it’d be great, I’d own a steam powered robot and pick up prudish but actually quite whorish Victorian madams. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-kept-the-victorian-look-worldview-today/555590/33 "2010-10-04T01:05:22Z")
> [@Rubik](#): > > …prudish but actually quite whorish Victorian madams. Who would be wearing corsets. There is something to be said for this…🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-kept-the-victorian-look-worldview-today/555590/34 "2010-10-04T02:43:36Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > WWI was more Edwardian than Victorian. And people were influenced by the horrors of WWI- that’s why WWII was fought without the use of Poison Gas (against military targets) Unless you were Chinese. So I guess going up against a steampunk _Japan_ would _really_ suck…they’d probably have giant robots, too. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-kept-the-victorian-look-worldview-today/555590/35 "2010-10-04T03:25:11Z")
Victorians were NOT the prudes everyone thinks they were – read _Inventing the Victorians_ by Matthew Sweet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-had-kept-the-victorian-look-worldview-today/555590.md?page=1)